Don't Let Me Speak At Your Funeral

[brianthephysicist]

A friend passed this on to me tonight. I am saddened by it.

[img]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/46279_474371605917189_1620992954_n.jpg[/img]


I understand that it's trying to get people who treat science as though it's a religion to wake up and realize what they're actually asking for, but it makes me feel all weird inside.

It makes me feel all alone and closed off.

It makes me feel like my major is dooming me to be alone with Godless and heartless people.

At our CCM, 6 grad students show up regularly. 1 is medical, 1 is biochemistry, 1 is an electrical engineer and 3 are physicists (including me).

Science should lead people to God. And stuff like this leaves me with a weird feeling inside.

I'm not saying that I agree with the "church of science", but I have difficulty condemning all of this away. I think all of those metaphors that were used are absolutely and tremendously beautiful. Not that it can even come close to the beauty of a personal God, a God who was willing to do what Jesus has done for us, but I find them beautiful in the sense that a flower or a masterpiece of artwork is beautiful. Or in wonder and awe as I am at the incredible nature of tornadoes, lightning, or the water cycle.

I agree that it's not what a grieving person needs, a grieving person needs to know the love of Christ and His mother and His Church and to know that they've also intimately shared in that sorrow. But I'm still unsettled by this (perceived) dismissal.

Maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe I'm too insensitive and I just need to put on my big-boy pantaloons and deal with it. Or maybe ...



... I don't know

[PhuturePriest]

I don't think scientists are insensitive at all. I can't say I have met many scientists, but the scientists I have met have been very sensitive to other peoples' emotions and were very loving and friendly, you being one of them! I definitely wouldn't have a problem if it was decided you were the one that would speak at my funeral. In fact, throwing the science stuff in would be hilarious, kind of like a satirical way of saying goodbye since I am in no way scientific and a majority of my scientific knowledge is Star Wars.

[Groo the Wanderer]

i think it is supposed to be mocking those who absurdly think science is incompatible with faith

[BG45]

I've seen it a few times, along with the stardust quote, always by proud Atheists trumpeting how science is infinitely more beautiful and true that the vile forces of Religion (I'm not even exaggerating any of that word wise):

[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8wtf50MZg1rdelixo1_500.jpg[/img]

And I don't think science and faith are incompatible in the least. I believe that science, as you said, can lead one to God. Some people look to our cells in absolute wonder; personally, I look to the stars and their brilliant majesty. So vast, so infinite, and every year we discover some new phenomena that fundamentally shifts some part of our knowledge about the universe around us. When I was a boy, the idea of a black hole was brand new, but now the theories about them have expanded greatly and much of what we initially assumed has been shown to not necessarily be true.

You have my prayers man, as one person who sometimes feels the same way about a "godless" profession to another. God is not in the vogue in social sciences at all; usually He comes up as a point of derision or "We should be thankful we're past the era when Clerics administered their evil brand of Justice in the name of an imaginary God."

[Papist]

I think this is mocking the people who's religion/faith is science and that science proves there is no God. I think he is replacing the died person's soul with physical matter. But what I really don't understand, is who talks to my father?

Brian, you are not in a Godless discipline. In fact, it is the contrary. You recall the works of Father Robert Spitzer?

[Anomaly]

Whether it's religion or science, we just want a story so we can hope we don't "really" die.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1347972851' post='2483685']
Whether it's religion or science, we just want a story so we can hope we don't "really" die.
[/quote]

I can agree with this.

However, I think we *want* this story is because we are hardcoded to search for truth in this world. It is no wonder both science and religion are sought out to fill that void.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1347973285' post='2483687']
I can agree with this.

However, I think we *want* this story is because we are hardcoded to search for truth in this world. It is no wonder both science and religion are sought out to fill that void.
[/quote]

This is basically what I said, too.

I don't think this is meant to mock anything, guys. To those who don't believe in God, the world can seem like one extremely well-timed accident. And I don't know about you, but as someone who has grappled pretty extensively with atheism, that can be an extremely saddening way to look at the world.

A couple years back a kid I grew up with took his life. My friends and I went to his viewing and the people that were hit hardest by the loss were those that had no faith. The idea that Ryan was gone, [i]forever, [/i]with no chance of ever seeing him again, was beyond crushing.

So often we theists are accused of using our religion as a crutch or coping mechanism to get through the tough parts of life. But the truth is that we're all struggling to find ways to get by. This, to me, is just a non-theist/secular answer to the questions everyone has.

But the beauty of it for us is that it points to Someone so much more. That's why I appreciate the picture ... it speaks to everyone universally.

[XIX]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1347968473' post='2483662']
I've seen it a few times, along with the stardust quote, always by proud Atheists trumpeting how science is infinitely more beautiful and true that the vile forces of Religion (I'm not even exaggerating any of that word wise):

[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8wtf50MZg1rdelixo1_500.jpg[/img]

And I don't think science and faith are incompatible in the least. I believe that science, as you said, can lead one to God. Some people look to our cells in absolute wonder; personally, I look to the stars and their brilliant majesty. So vast, so infinite, and every year we discover some new phenomena that fundamentally shifts some part of our knowledge about the universe around us. When I was a boy, the idea of a black hole was brand new, but now the theories about them have expanded greatly and much of what we initially assumed has been shown to not necessarily be true.

You have my prayers man, as one person who sometimes feels the same way about a "godless" profession to another. God is not in the vogue in social sciences at all; usually He comes up as a point of derision or "We should be thankful we're past the era when Clerics administered their evil brand of Justice in the name of an imaginary God."
[/quote]
I read the quote before I read any of your post. For most of the quote, I thought "wow that's really avvwsome!" Then he gets to the part of how stars died so that we might live, and I'm just like yeah...well that's horrendously illogical if I may say so myself.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='XIX' timestamp='1347990030' post='2483785']
I read the quote before I read any of your post. For most of the quote, I thought "wow that's really avvwsome!" Then he gets to the part of how stars died so that we might live, and I'm just like yeah...well that's horrendously illogical if I may say so myself.
[/quote]

Hey man, you have to appreciate the sacrifice all those stars made for you. You obviously just hate our freedoms.

[sixpence]

When I first saw it, I could not tell if it was a jab at naturalists, or a jab religious people, or if it was just meant to be beautiful. I am a little confused about your reaction..maybe you could explain it better. It DID make me think to myself "wow this would still be a pretty lonely set of circumstances if not for the Creator who made all these things true, and also gave us a soul". I thought it was a nice set of thoughts, but at the same time I understand how depressing the idea might be that in the end all we would amount to is some bits of matter and energy that effected some other bits of matter and energy, no matter how cool they were.

[Era Might]

[quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1347943934' post='2483607']
[img]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/46279_474371605917189_1620992954_n.jpg[/img][/quote]Would this theoretical eulogy be any less comforting than believing that your loved one may be in hell? I know nobody actually believes in hell anymore (except maybe for Hitler and Justin Bieber); for people today death means going to join the angels on a cloud and getting to meet Elvis and your grandma. But for me the hardest part of someone dying is not the thought that they might not exist anymore, but the thought that they are in hell; yes, maybe even your grandma is in hell. I don't think religion is necessarily more comforting than atheism...it is for the Saints, but for the general mass of humanity I don't know how much room for optimism there is (except a desperate hope for mercy). I think Anomaly hit the nail on the head above that people just want a story, any story, and at this point in history the story is that everyone is basically good and God is a nice guy in the sky.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Era Might

[Maggyie]

I read the two quotes and I don't understand what's wrong with them? Other than the bit about Jesus and the stars dying for you obviously. Could it be that the law about the conservation of energy hints at the existence of the soul? Since it goes on forever and ever? I don't know it's interesting.