Different Values From Parents

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='To Jesus Through Mary' timestamp='1348446179' post='2485796']
I am also almost 30, where we are different is I have lived on my own for well over a decade. But when I go home for visits or 2x when I was in between places (I stayed for a few months once and 1 month another time). When I go home I still follow the rules and try and be a considerate as possible. It is not only common sense that calls me to obey the rules of the person who I am staying with, but with my parents it is Biblical. I heard a priest give a talk on the 4th Commandment once, he said that while being supported by our parents (ie living at home) we are held to obedience to them by the 4th Commandment (unless it is a sin what they are asking of us) and if we are not supported by them we are still called to a deep honor and reverence for them. They gave us life. So although we are always called to honor our parents (they gave us life, raised us up, made sacrifices for, etc) when we live with them we have a higher obligation of obedience to them.

The bottom line, IMO- if you do not want to obey them or "roll over and settle for anything please mommy and daddy" then move out. Until then you are under their roof and they are to an extent supporting you. You want to be independent, be independent. From what you are saying they aren't asking anything of you that is so horrible anyway. And when you move out you will see that living on your own you find yourself doing all those things you abhorred so much to do in your parents house. I think part of that is our concupiscence and another part is a world view crashing around us when we see what it is like to truly live independently.

There is also nothing hypocritical of submitting ourselves to the will of another. Humbling, difficult, and annoying? Yep- you bet! It goes against our rebellious nature! When I began to support myself (at 18) I was so naive in thinking that I wouldn't ever have to listen to anybody again. Turns out I had to start listening to everybody. I am sure you are not as naive as I was, but from your posts I don't think you really grasp that obedience is a life long time struggle that doesn't stop with mom or dad. That is more like training for the rest of our lives.
[/quote]
Then it is not my fault that I missed that chance to work for the state. Because one parent seemed to think it was not reasonable and having everything lined up to move there before I applied for the job that would start months later was not realistic. Now maybe this could have been sorted out if we discussed it more, but I would have to be willing to question what I understood I was being told by them. That is what I mean by accepting whatever mommy and daddy want. I don't that you understand that I don't mean that I am unwilling to do the dishes every night or be the first to take the trash out on trash night.

I want to work in the public sector eventually. It's where my heart is. It's what I can get up excited to do each day. It's what let's me live in accordance with my values. I say I want to work at a non-profit and am told I won't make much money. I had to be willing to say that it is where my heart is to be told then do it. It took my 9 years to say that. When I did, I had taken a course that relates a while back and gained experience being involved in a couple already, and oh btw parents, I have something lined up to gain experience directly related to the kind of full-time job I want to land in it and am taking a course to specialize further in it and was talking with a friend about my cover letter for one of those jobs. Should I have pretended that what I wanted was something else?

I signed on again to add to that post that my point was that my parents may be my best friends ever, but that does not mean they know everything that is good for me. Just like a certain church group ended up not being good for me, but I had to decide that and move myself (and you should appreciate a change from slightly anti-catholic theology to apostolic church).

Edited September 24, 2012 by Light and Truth

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1348446435' post='2485798']All of my kids had jobs in addition to school, so their schedules were erratic, and sometimes they left before I was up or came in after I was retired for the night. If I did cook and they missed supper, then it went in the fridge as leftovers so it was no big deal, it would always be gone by morning. Sometimes they came home late and decided to cook a very late meal and I would awake to the smell of pancakes and sausage at 2 am, and I would find my breakfast awaiting me in the fridge. We have a basic supply of food maintained at all times so coming up with a menu is not an issue - fruits, veggies, chicken, rice. Even now I might know where my kid is, but not always his arrival home time since he is extremely busy. My kids are responsible adults 95% of the time, the other 5% we attempt to negotiate.
[/quote]
I worked sometimes two jobs while paying for school and personal expenses with financial aid and part-time work, and I was still home for dinner nearly every night that class ended before 8 PM unless it was a special event or when I had my pre-university community college retail jobs at night. I have not negotiated much since I was a severely underemployed college grad and was offered a chance to use their gas card or when I got a better job, paid for my own gas again, and offered to pay insurance but was told to save for when I need a new car. My life is no different than it was 5 years ago except that I spend more time at work and less time on (now optional for me and proud of me to them) education.[i][b] [/b][/i][u]What can I negotiate?[/u] I thought about asking to have one night off from their dinner plans each week to do whatever I want (and still do dishes before 11:30 pm), but I don't want to sound rejecting of my family.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Light and Truth

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1348447056' post='2485800']
Then it is not my fault that I missed that chance to work for the state. Because one parent seemed to think it was not reasonable and having everything lined up to move there before I applied for the job that would start months later was not realistic. Now maybe this could have been sorted out if we discussed it more, but I would have to be willing to question what I understood I was being told by them. That is what I mean by accepting whatever mommy and daddy want. I don't mean that I am not willing to do the dishes every night or be the first to take the trash out on trash night.

I signed on again to add to that post that my point was that my parents may be my best friends ever, but that does not mean they know everything that is good for me. Just like a certain church group ended up not being good for me, but I had to decide that and move myself (and you should appreciate a change from slightly anti-catholic theology to apostolic church).
[/quote]

Part of the deal of growing up is to evaluate the advice someone gives us and make a choice. You just try not to make the same mistake twice. My kids do consult me still about major decisions, and we make lists of the pros and cons, but the final decisions are up to them because they are the ones who have to live with them.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1348447571' post='2485801']
I worked sometimes two jobs while paying for school and personal expenses with financial aid and part-time work, and I was still home for dinner nearly every night that class ended before 8 PM unless it was a special event or when I had my pre-university community college retail jobs at night. I have not negotiated much since I was a severely underemployed college grad and was offered a chance to use their gas card or when I got a better job, paid for my own gas again, and offered to pay insurance but was told to save for when I need a new car. My life is no different than it was 5 years ago except that I spend more time at work and less time on (now optional for me and proud of me to them) education. What can I negotiate? I thought about asking to have one night off from their dinner plans each week to do whatever I want (and still do dishes before 11:30 pm), but I don't want to sound rejecting of my family.
[/quote]

Are you expected to be home for supper EVERY night?? Dearie as far as I am concerned you are a working adult, and if you make other plans, whether its to go to the movies, shopping whatever, then I would as a parent respect your right to do it. Now if you skipped every meal with the rest of us I would start to feel a bit unloved, and I would whine, but its not like I could demand you be home for supper every night, that is not how adults treat each other. And I certainly would not expect you to do dishes if you didn't eat there. I would hope to create an environment where you would want to spend time with us, but you are not a child. The only exception are the holidays, I do appreciate my kids stopping in even if the have other commitments, because then I do cook.

[Nihil Obstat]

I am having a hard time figuring out what this discussion is actually about.

[Anastasia13]

And while I am at it, how much freedom does an adult at home have to do things that parents won't object to but might not much approve of either? And how much does that really change when we move out?

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1348448454' post='2485808']
I am having a hard time figuring out what this discussion is actually about.
[/quote]
It's about a lot of things, but basically it is about me learning to be an adult for myself and not for my family while I live with them.

[To Jesus Through Mary]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1348448454' post='2485808']
I am having a hard time figuring out what this discussion is actually about.
[/quote]

The 4th Commandment and concupiscence towards disobedience and rebellion.

[Nihil Obstat]

L&T, if I might be very bold... you sound like you are rather angry, but it also seems like directionless anger. You said you do not argue with your parents very often. I might suggest then, not really knowing you or your life or your situation, that what I am reading into your posts is resentment. Perhaps resentment towards your parents, or towards your life situation... Resentment that you are not the person you thought you would be at your age? I do not know, nor is it my place to ask. I may in fact be entirely off track here.
To be honest, I do not understand your posts in this thread, despite having read them several times. Probably the reason for that is that I do not know you. Anyway, all this is is my instinctive reactions to what you have said so far, and I am posting it on the off-chance that anything I am saying makes some amount of sense to you.

[add]

[quote name='To Jesus Through Mary' timestamp='1348448914' post='2485812']


The 4th Commandment and concupiscence towards disobedience and rebellion.
[/quote]
And trust, too or the lack of it!

I hope when your on your own L& T, that you learn to understand just how important and Beneficial parents are or can be if you only trust them.
By the way, parents don't stop loving and caring about you when you move away.

Edited September 24, 2012 by add

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1348448351' post='2485807']
Are you expected to be home for supper EVERY night?? Dearie as far as I am concerned you are a working adult, and if you make other plans, whether its to go to the movies, shopping whatever, then I would as a parent respect your right to do it. Now if you skipped every meal with the rest of us I would start to feel a bit unloved, and I would whine, but its not like I could demand you be home for supper every night, that is not how adults treat each other. And I certainly would not expect you to do dishes if you didn't eat there. I would hope to create an environment where you would want to spend time with us, but you are not a child. The only exception are the holidays, I do appreciate my kids stopping in even if the have other commitments, because then I do cook.
[/quote]
Umm, my parents are thoughtful people. They make dinner nearly every night. Hence, they cook for me. They know I am planning on eating with them unless I tell them otherwise. They plan accordingly. I know they plan accordingly and it is rude to waste their food that they bought to include me. I know that they want to know ahead of time so they can plan accordingly and not waste like that. Hence I know not to make plans last minute. Hence I have to tell them in advance, and I have done that enough with little notice recently that I start to feel bad and didn't want to tell them that I wanted to go to an event in 2 days. I had to turn down going out with friends twice recently because I was invited that day. I have to explain to a couple of my friends that I cannot go out because my parents are planning on me being home for dinner. I know that dinners are important to one of my parents partly because of culture and it is important to me as it is one of the things that connects us-though I would prefer more dinners where we leave the TV off as my best conversations are usually other times. I eat dinner with my parents probably 27-28 days a month or yes, EVERY night except when I had meetings as a political volunteer earlier this year, a wedding to attend, or a special event. Those are days that I spend most of the evening at home not getting out and meeting people, not meeting guys, not developing friendships outside of online and maybe a couple via phone.My social life ends at 6:30 or 7 on weekends unless it is planned in advance and I should not be telling them Friday that I will be out Saturday unless it is already on the calendar and I should probably say something anyways if this is the case because they might not know to check the calendar (be patient, one is disabled, the other works two jobs sometimes). And I enjoy going out for a drink with friends or seeing a movie or something, but if I don't plan in advance enough, I only get to do that at 9:30 at night when I am a pathetic night owl who desperately needs to get her butt into bed at a decent hour and that does not sound that smart unless I just want to hang out for 45 minutes and go home.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1348453095' post='2485843']
Umm, my parents are thoughtful people. They make dinner nearly every night. Hence, they cook for me. They know I am planning on eating with them unless I tell them otherwise. They plan accordingly. I know they plan accordingly and it is rude to waste their food that they bought to include me. I know that they want to know ahead of time so they can plan accordingly and not waste like that. Hence I know not to make plans last minute. Hence I have to tell them in advance, and I have done that enough with little notice recently that I start to feel bad and didn't want to tell them that I wanted to go to an event in 2 days. I had to turn down going out with friends twice recently because I was invited that day. I have to explain to a couple of my friends that I cannot go out because my parents are planning on me being home for dinner. I know that dinners are important to one of my parents partly because of culture and it is important to me as it is one of the things that connects us-though I would prefer more dinners where we leave the TV off as my best conversations are usually other times. I eat dinner with my parents probably 27-28 days a month or yes, EVERY night except when I had meetings as a political volunteer earlier this year, a wedding to attend, or a special event. Those are days that I spend most of the evening at home not getting out and meeting people, not meeting guys, not developing friendships outside of online and maybe a couple via phone.My social life ends at 6:30 or 7 on weekends unless it is planned in advance and I should not be telling them Friday that I will be out Saturday unless it is already on the calendar and I should probably say something anyways if this is the case because they might not know to check the calendar (be patient, one is disabled, the other works two jobs sometimes). And I enjoy going out for a drink with friends or seeing a movie or something, but if I don't plan in advance enough, I only get to do that at 9:30 at night when I am a pathetic night owl who desperately needs to get her butt into bed at a decent hour and that does not sound that smart unless I just want to hang out for 45 minutes and go home.
[/quote]
You seem to be getting defensive and a bit passive aggressive here dear. I am not telling you how to live your life, and I am describing how we arrange ours. We don't negotiate meals, we just try have respect for each other's lives because they are not kids anymore, and we all have our own agendas.
If you miss a meal it goes in the fridge and its called leftovers, its not wasting food. Leftovers can make a good meal. Our lives are not so structured that we cannot make spur of the moment plans to meet friends if they ask, and its not a big deal. Meal planning is not a big thing for us, we buy food weekly and its not served on a rigid schedule. Sometimes they walk in from work and announce they are cooking steaks, so get out of the kitchen. If I am already cookng whatever I made can either supplement supper, or be used for packed lunches the next day. All of us doing the shopping. We do have a calendar that gives us a hint as to what is going on, but everyone here is very busy, and many times we are gone from 7am to 11pm during the week. If I call them and say so and so wants me to go out, they say enjoy yourself, and if they call , I do the same. If I am busy and the kids are home, they cook for me, this is not a bad thing I like their leftovers, they are all excellent cooks. We are excited to get to eat together a couple of times a week,especially in the summer when we are not so busy, and frequently a neighbor or two pops in for samples. This week I will probably cook something Monday and Wednesday and Friday, but the rest of the week no one else will be here.
My children are generally thoughtful adults, so we all get along this way reasonably well.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1348455671' post='2485856']
You seem to be getting defensive and a bit passive aggressive here dear. I am not telling you how to live your life, and I am describing how we arrange ours. We don't negotiate meals, we just try have respect for each other's lives because they are not kids anymore, and we all have our own agendas.
If you miss a meal it goes in the fridge and its called leftovers, its not wasting food. Leftovers can make a good meal. Our lives are not so structured that we cannot make spur of the moment plans to meet friends if they ask, and its not a big deal. Meal planning is not a big thing for us, we buy food weekly and its not served on a rigid schedule. Sometimes they walk in from work and announce they are cooking steaks, so get out of the kitchen. If I am already cookng whatever I made can either supplement supper, or be used for packed lunches the next day. All of us doing the shopping. We do have a calendar that gives us a hint as to what is going on, but everyone here is very busy, and many times we are gone from 7am to 11pm during the week. If I call them and say so and so wants me to go out, they say enjoy yourself, and if they call , I do the same. If I am busy and the kids are home, they cook for me, this is not a bad thing I like their leftovers, they are all excellent cooks. We are excited to get to eat together a couple of times a week, especially in the summer when we are not so busy, and frequently a neighbor or two pops in for samples. This week I will probably cook something Monday and Wednesday and Friday, but the rest of the week no one else will be here.
My children are generally thoughtful adults, so we all get along this way reasonably well.
[/quote]
I am sorry if I seem too defensive here. You actually seemed to be hearing me out at least a little in your last post. I only meant to explain my situation more. It seems like so many people here just want to tell me to obey my parents or tell me to move out. No one seems to be hearing where I am coming from. I know what I am talking about is more nebulous than single focused, but I don’t think it is as simple as telling me to shut up and obey with gratitude, which is what I am getting the impression that several people think it is.

What I want is to have a different life. I know that that takes time and has many steps. When it comes to big life decisions, if I still need to rely on my parents or what I think they would think instead of deciding for myself, then something is wrong. They have taught and invested in me for years so that I can make the right choices in life. I want to make more those choices for myself, including ones that might be mistakes but need to be made to learn and make those choices instead of sitting at home doing nothing.

I want to take risks and try new things, which they might not necessarily object to but might not understand or which I am simply shy about trying and don’t want to make a big deal about. (E.G. dating a different kind of guy than my usual type.) I want to get out and meet guys outside of just Sunday church. I am almost 30, my friends are married or in long term relationships, and I want to get the hang of how to meet different guys I could date and be more sure of the kind of guy I want while there are still some age-appropriate single guys around. I am not used to or completely comfortable talking about dating with my parents unless I am starting to see someone for more than a date or two and I would rather take my time to decide what I think before I tell them a lot. I don’t know how to have the dating life I want or the social life I want while I live at home.

The dinner thing affects my dating life and my social life. It also affects some decisions I make about other little things in my life, like my choices this summer for a big event with a friend were: lots of little errands or uncomfortable timing. I don’t have the ability to be responsible for feeding myself as much as I have the responsibility to be part of others’ meal. I suppose that there is no practical advice for this other than keep doing what I am doing to eventually move out.

I have sacrificed for what my parents advised about something medical, for my parents worries about international travel, for what I thought my parents wanted me to do, and for practical advice others have given me, etc. I am slightly jealous of some people and figure that my choices are give it up for good or develop the discipline and skills to make it happen. Even if I fail, I will learn and do some pretty cool stuff and be better along in having certain things I really want in my life. While there was some wisdom in what I was told about certain things, and I wish I had the discipline to do more of what I want already. That fact is what is going to motivate me to do certain things for myself and motivates me more than obeying my parents and comes from me being taught by then when I was younger and asking myself what is important to me now.

At the same time, I am also partially changing churches to one that is rather different than what they would go to, and which apart from culture (when I used to go to a primarily other culture church), I’m not sure they would go to, which has certain doctrines I know they disagree with but a priest they would love. Overall, I feel like am adapting to a lot of inner changes and clarifications in goals in what feels like a short period of time.

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1348449000' post='2485813']
L&T, if I might be very bold... you sound like you are rather angry, but it also seems like directionless anger. You said you do not argue with your parents very often. I might suggest then, not really knowing you or your life or your situation, that what I am reading into your posts is resentment. Perhaps resentment towards your parents, or towards your life situation... Resentment that you are not the person you thought you would be at your age? I do not know, nor is it my place to ask. I may in fact be entirely off track here.
To be honest, I do not understand your posts in this thread, despite having read them several times. Probably the reason for that is that I do not know you. Anyway, all this is is my instinctive reactions to what you have said so far, and I am posting it on the off-chance that anything I am saying makes some amount of sense to you.[/quote]
You are perhaps the most insightful person here. I probably am a little resentful, but I don’t know what to do about it. The past is the past, and I can blame and bring things up, or I can deal with what is to give me the life I want. I want to know how to better go about changing to the life I want, and preferably without being told to simply get over it and obey until I move out because I don’t see how that helps me. What is done is done, but I can still do something to change the future and have the life that I want. I am an adult, and I should act like one. I have to live with myself longer than they do, and the consequences of my decisions more than they do. In the end, I am responsible for my own life. I need to act like it. If I want something else, it is up to me to at least start making it happen. I want a different life, and I am trying to get used to what it takes to make that happen, including some definite personal growth and learning. Some of these things I honestly do not know the practical skills of how to change while I live at home and would value input on how to make that happen. My biggest motivation for this thread was that I am shy about making everything visible and under discussion. I don’t have all of the social dynamics skills to be comfortable in my own skin all the time while I do that.

I also resent being told by some here that what most motivates me to do what is best for me must fall by the wayside because if that is what is important to me, then I am not honoring my parents. Parents teach us things to help us grow, they teach us to take care of ourselves, they teach us to love others, they teach us values, they teach us to make decisions and think for ourselves, and if we can never do that for ourselves, have they really succeeded? When push comes to shove, if we have our own reasons for doing something, we are more likely to stick with it. I know my parents want me to be healthy and would like to see me able to do things that make me happy in life. I want to be a better, healthier, stronger person who works for and achieves dreams, and I will face a lot of pushing and shoving to make that happen. I can deal without the judgment, or at least some more gentleness in it.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Light and Truth

[To Jesus Through Mary]

T&L it's not that we didn't hear you, you just didn't like what some of us had to say. Cmother gave you some great ideas based off of real life experience of how you could approach your parents about the meal thing. As for the organizing thing, I still think it is a reasonable request on the part of your parents. As for the job, I don't know the specifics behind it. If they told you not to apply for it or if they advised you. Is it a matter of obedience or you care too much what they think? I dunno. You mentioned early that you care a lot what others think. I fall into that same trap and it has taken me a great deal of time to overcome it, to be comfortable with myself when someone close to me doesn't like my decision. As for the dating thing just mentioned- yeah go to young adult events at your church. I agree you gotta be out to meet people. Again pray. and pray hard. Pax sister.

I will be praying for you at Mass today.

[quote] [Nihil] You are perhaps the most insightful person here.[/quote]

Wow. Just wow. Nihil someone is finally seeing the greatest of your mind.

[To Jesus Through Mary]

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Edited September 24, 2012 by To Jesus Through Mary