Any Advice?

[PhuturePriest]

Tonight I was in my brother's room and he was listening to a very sexual song. Part of me wanted to be quiet about it since I knew if I said anything to him it would make him angry and he would yell, but the other part of me wanted to help him and recalled what I was told once: We aren't going to just be judged on what we did, but what we [i]didn't [/i]do, and if we don't speak up at times when we see people are doing something wrong than we will be judged for that too. So, I very kindly asked him if he knew it was inappropriate, and he said yes but didn't care, and I said it wasn't exactly morally good to do so, in which he then started yelling about his rights as a citizen, and I of course explained to him I was talking about morals and not laws, but that simply made him angrier and I just left as he yelled at me even after I had closed the door and was almost in my room. I am of course praying for him, but is there anything [i]effective [/i]that I can do aside from prayer? He has some anger issues and as you can see is not very kind towards anything he deems as criticism (Even though I wasn't being critical and was actually using a pleasant voice, I was simply concerned for his moral well-being). One thing he said that struck me was "Don't take anything more away from me!" which is referring to other times that I have done this in terms of looking out for his moral well-being, such as telling him abstaining from meat on Fridays when it isn't lent has not been abolished, which he didn't take to very well at all. He said that "All songs these days are about sex", so what was I expecting him to do, not listen to music anymore? I replied that I know a lot of great songs that aren't, but he seems attached to the ones he has.

Sorry for rambling. Anyway, any advice and/or insight on the situation? Perhaps from people with experience in this sort of thing? He isn't the most religious person and he doesn't like to talk about religion at all since he has an insane fear of hell and anything related to religion at all immediately brings to his mind hell, so quotes from Saints or clergy or anything like that is off the table in terms of trying to help convey my message better.

Edited September 11, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[Vincent Vega]

Out of curiosity, is he an older or younger brother?

[4588686]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PkXpCsgj5U&playnext=1&list=PLC6F1A815691A3E8E&feature=results_video"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PkXpCsgj5U&playnext=1&list=PLC6F1A815691A3E8E&feature=results_video[/url]

[emmaberry]

This is going to sound so lameobvious, but it's all I have: lead by example. You know what Saint Francis said about using words only when necessary to preach. The only problem is that you probably won't see results from your brother anytime soon. When we lead by example we are less privy to the thoughts of the person we are trying to 'convert'. Your brother is right that most popular songs today are morally inappropriate, but there are definitely good songs that are not..they just don't make the top ten and won't make your brother look cool when he drives around or sings along.

[4588686]

[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman', Times, serif][size=1][center]
[b] Aleksandr Pushkin[/b]
[img]http://www.poetryloverspage.com/gif/scroll2.gif[/img][/center][/size][/font][/color]
[b] Talisman[/b]

My talisman, pray, be my guard,
In days of strongest agitation,
Of prosecution, lamentation:
The day, I've owned you, was hard.

When the ocean will ride,
Around me the rolls in ire,
When clouds will be set in fire,
My talisman, pray, be my guard.

In life with homeland apart,
In peaceful being's boring rattle,
In trouble of a flame of battle,
My talisman, pray, be my guard.

Illusion, sanctified and bright,
My soul's light and consolation
It chanced to be adulteration --
My talisman, pray, be my guard.

So, let the wounds of my poor heart
Will not be touched be recollection,
Farewell my hope, sleep attraction,
My talisman, pray, be my guard.

[Julie de Sales]

In theory, you are not obliged to correct someone unless you can presume that your action will have the desired effect. If your brother is always angry when you try to show him that what he is doing is wrong, I don’t know what else you could do except praying for him. Of course, your good example is already a silent correction and maybe his behavior will change in time.

[Papist]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1347341919' post='2481244']
Tonight I was in my brother's room and he was listening to a very sexual song. Part of me wanted to be quiet about it since I knew if I said anything to him it would make him angry and he would yell, but the other part of me wanted to help him and recalled what I was told once: We aren't going to just be judged on what we did, but what we [i]didn't [/i]do, and if we don't speak up at times when we see people are doing something wrong than we will be judged for that too. So, I very kindly asked him if he knew it was inappropriate, and he said yes but didn't care, and I said it wasn't exactly morally good to do so, in which he then started yelling about his rights as a citizen, and I of course explained to him I was talking about morals and not laws, but that simply made him angrier and I just left as he yelled at me even after I had closed the door and was almost in my room. I am of course praying for him, but is there anything [i]effective [/i]that I can do aside from prayer? He has some anger issues and as you can see is not very kind towards anything he deems as criticism (Even though I wasn't being critical and was actually using a pleasant voice, I was simply concerned for his moral well-being). One thing he said that struck me was "Don't take anything more away from me!" which is referring to other times that I have done this in terms of looking out for his moral well-being, such as telling him abstaining from meat on Fridays when it isn't lent has not been abolished, which he didn't take to very well at all. He said that "All songs these days are about sex", so what was I expecting him to do, not listen to music anymore? I replied that I know a lot of great songs that aren't, but he seems attached to the ones he has.

Sorry for rambling. Anyway, any advice and/or insight on the situation? Perhaps from people with experience in this sort of thing? He isn't the most religious person and he doesn't like to talk about religion at all since he has an insane fear of hell and anything related to religion at all immediately brings to his mind hell, so quotes from Saints or clergy or anything like that is off the table in terms of trying to help convey my message better.
[/quote]
I would not tell him he is wrong, going to hell, etc. The chances you are going to convince him is zero. It best to tell him that [u]you[/u] would not and do not listen to such music AND tell him why [u]you[/u] choose not to listen to such music. If it is a hard choice for you b/c the music sounds great, tell him that. Him knowing that it is not easy for you might be productive.

All you want to do is give him stuff to think/reflect on. Doing good and avoiding evil is written in our hearts. However, God gave us free will, so doing good and avoiding evil is a choice, not instinct. I thank the Lord at least 3 times a week for giving us the Church, for without Her I would be lost.

[PhuturePriest]

I never said he was going to hell, just that it wasn't morally good, which I do suppose he connects the two due to his great fear of hell. I have been leading by example for over a year when it comes to this. I used to listen to AC/DC, Guns N' Roses, Aerosmith, Motley Crue, Warrant, etc, and I really loved it and it was so hard stopping especially since one of my greatest interests is music and playing it. But I sucked it up and did it, and I haven't listened to any of it since. I still listen to some of their songs that are appropriate (Which is pretty difficult to find appropriate songs when it comes to Motley Crue or AC/DC), but all others I don't, and my brother knows this, he simply likes his music and that's that.

And I am the younger brother and youngest in general by three years. I think this may have something to do with it since every time I do something he deems as critical or I know something he doesn't and corrects him he gets extremely angry, which I suppose is because he sees himself as the senior and therefore [i]he [/i]should be doing these things to me, not the other way around.

Edited September 11, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[Papist]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1347370836' post='2481289']
I never said he was going to hell, just that it wasn't morally good, which I do suppose he connects the two due to his great fear of hell. I have been leading by example for over a year when it comes to this. I used to listen to AC/DC, Guns N' Roses, Aerosmith, Motley Crue, Warrant, etc, and I really loved it and it was so hard stopping especially since one of my greatest interests is music and playing it. But I sucked it up and did it, and I haven't listened to any of it since. I still listen to some of their songs that are appropriate (Which is pretty difficult to find appropriate songs when it comes to Motley Crue or AC/DC), but all others I don't, and my brother knows this, he simply likes his music and that's that.

And I am the younger brother and youngest in general by three years. I think this may have something to do with it since every time I do something he deems as critical or I know something he doesn't and corrects him he gets extremely angry, which I suppose is because he sees himself as the senior and therefore [i]he [/i]should be doing these things to me, not the other way around.
[/quote]
I know. I was just providing an example of it being all about him, and none about you.

Perhaps as his younger brother, you can ask him what attracts him to this music. And ask him if there are lyrics that he would draw the line on and not listen. [b]Make it a conversation, and NOT a debate.[/b]

Edited September 11, 2012 by Papist

[beatitude]

If he has 'a great fear of hell', telling him what he's doing wrong won't help him. It sounds as though his religious observance is already tinged with a lot of fear and it would make more sense to address that, as if you find peace and joy in Christ then it's easier to pass up on things like inappropriate music or TV. But if you spend a lot of your time feeling frightened and bound in by punitive rules then of course you're going to want to take a little enjoyment where you can.

What sort of music does he like? It might be helpful if you could make him a compilation CD of songs that aren't objectionable (they do exist!) and that fit his taste, and then give it to him as a present. I'm not sure how well he would receive such a gift after your argument, though. It might be better just to pray for him. Be sensitive to his fears in future and try to avoid presenting the faith as a laundry list of requirements.

[Papist]

Yes FP. Look into Disciple, Pillar, Chevelle, Skillet, Project 86, Blindside

[Winchester]

[img]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ma%2BWFnctL._SL500_AA300_.jpg[/img]

[cmaD2006]

Give your brother some space.

My younger sister had a "born again" experience when I was young (around 16 maybe 15). How she acted turned ME completely off to any and all religion.

Now it is the other way around ... I encourage her to seek the Lord out. She's lived through so much that it is hard for her to believe in any religion or church.

I think the lead by example is a great idea -- the best way you can help is by just being authentic in following Christ. Preach with the actions not with words. Otherwise you will probably just lead him that much farther away (that's what happened with me ... I was so anti-Church that I was agnostic, if anything, for years after that).

What made me start to think about going to Church? It was the example of a lutheran pastor and his wife who opened their doors to me so that I could finish my internship after being kicked out of an aunt's house (for no good reason). I expected to have to go to their church on sunday. The wife promptly came into my room and said "hon -- you don't have to go to church because you're staying here ... go when you want to, when you feel ready." And that was the beginning of the searching that took a few years but lead to the Catholic Church. I have no clue what would have happened if I had been forced to go to Church, but I suspect that I would not have listened at all (and I would have been completely obstinate about it).

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1347373146' post='2481305']
If he has 'a great fear of hell', telling him what he's doing wrong won't help him. It sounds as though his religious observance is already tinged with a lot of fear and it would make more sense to address that, as if you find peace and joy in Christ then it's easier to pass up on things like inappropriate music or TV. But if you spend a lot of your time feeling frightened and bound in by punitive rules then of course you're going to want to take a little enjoyment where you can.

What sort of music does he like? It might be helpful if you could make him a compilation CD of songs that aren't objectionable (they do exist!) and that fit his taste, and then give it to him as a present. I'm not sure how well he would receive such a gift after your argument, though. It might be better just to pray for him. Be sensitive to his fears in future and try to avoid presenting the faith as a laundry list of requirements.
[/quote]

These are my thoughts exactly in your first sentence. He does stuff he knows is wrong, but then he complains that we talk about religion so much because it reminds him of hell. I've thought about trying to address it, but I have no clue how without making him angry. He has anger issues, as I said, and it really shortens my options. I don't understand his anger. I'm difficult to anger, and in fact a fault I have is that I don't get angry even if the time calls for just anger, and I simply don't understand why he is so touchy. Sometimes it just gets plain childish. For instance, at this moment he is fuming because my father bought him the wrong pop tarts.

He likes anything from Lady Gaga to Bach, really. He listens to some Metal, some Rock such as AC/DC and ZZ Top, some classical music, but most of what he listens to is pop music, which ranges from whatever is "hot" at the moment. He also listens to some Christian Rock like the Newsboys, but it is quite rare when he does.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1347375182' post='2481309']
Give your brother some space.

My younger sister had a "born again" experience when I was young (around 16 maybe 15). How she acted turned ME completely off to any and all religion.

Now it is the other way around ... I encourage her to seek the Lord out. She's lived through so much that it is hard for her to believe in any religion or church.

I think the lead by example is a great idea -- the best way you can help is by just being authentic in following Christ. Preach with the actions not with words. Otherwise you will probably just lead him that much farther away (that's what happened with me ... I was so anti-Church that I was agnostic, if anything, for years after that).

What made me start to think about going to Church? It was the example of a lutheran pastor and his wife who opened their doors to me so that I could finish my internship after being kicked out of an aunt's house (for no good reason). I expected to have to go to their church on sunday. The wife promptly came into my room and said "hon -- you don't have to go to church because you're staying here ... go when you want to, when you feel ready." And that was the beginning of the searching that took a few years but lead to the Catholic Church. I have no clue what would have happened if I had been forced to go to Church, but I suspect that I would not have listened at all (and I would have been completely obstinate about it).
[/quote]

Thanks for the advice! I honestly never talk about religion to him because I know it is a hot issue for him. He's not anti-religious, he just doesn't talk about it. When I first wanted to become a Priest he was anything but supportive, and I remember being so excited and wanting to talk to him about it but he wouldn't listen to it at all. First he said he didn't like the idea, and then eventually he didn't care, so long as I didn't talk about it to him, so I don't. I have tried to convince him to discern before, but this was not worth the breath it took to talk to him, as he is dead-set on getting married. He won't even consider anything else, which slightly irritates me because I used to be exactly the same way. He always gets annoyed whenever I ask the family to say the Rosary with me (I say it every day) as he would rather spend his day locked in his room playing video games or watching Cheers, and the worst part is I feel as if I can do something about it, even though I know I can't other than pray.