Nihil Obstat Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Among my many role models, I have a special place in my heart for at least the symbol of those Korean shop owners who banded together during the LA riots to protect each other and their businesses from violent looters. That, to me, is a symbol of the free nature of humans, and the ways in which we naturally are inclined to help each other when push comes to shove. [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TsFXJA9YHlE/TTeIfFOIuVI/AAAAAAAAAQI/VqNzxdhlp5s/s1600/58852252.jpg[/img] [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XrWno3U2iog/T_zBO5jkALI/AAAAAAAACR4/7jV97NXLSR8/s1600/Koreans+in+LA+w+pistols.jpg[/img] [img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5d2nopM1q1r7bfvzo1_500.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Why are those cops not in uniform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Nihil, this is morally superior. Because badge and taxation: [url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102730/Arizona-cop-James-Peters-shot-killed-unarmed-grandfather-involved-FIVE-previous-fatal-shootings.html"]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102730/Arizona-cop-James-Peters-shot-killed-unarmed-grandfather-involved-FIVE-previous-fatal-shootings.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348869192' post='2487718'] Nihil, this is morally superior. Because badge and taxation: [url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102730/Arizona-cop-James-Peters-shot-killed-unarmed-grandfather-involved-FIVE-previous-fatal-shootings.html"]http://www.dailymail...-shootings.html[/url] [/quote] So brave. Brave brave brave brave brave. Bravesauce. There is Jose Guerena as well. Law enforcement officers? More like Bravery Braveforcement Warriors, amirite?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1348869965' post='2487723'] So brave. Brave brave brave brave brave. Bravesauce. There is Jose Guerena as well. Law enforcement officers? More like Bravery Braveforcement Warriors, amirite?? [/quote] I forgot about this thread...and that pic reminds me of class last Tuesday. I brought up how when police were first organizing it was decided to model after labor unions, but without the strikes. "Of course strikes do happen; one did prior to my birth in my home state. Crime actually went down when citizens were able to defend themselves without worrying about the rule of law." "Really?" "Oh yes, when every house was suddenly a fortress filled with gun toting rednecks, burglary dropped faster than you could try to explain why." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 [quote name='BG45' timestamp='1348873248' post='2487739'] I forgot about this thread...and that pic reminds me of class last Tuesday. I brought up how when police were first organizing it was decided to model after labor unions, but without the strikes. "Of course strikes do happen; one did prior to my birth in my home state. Crime actually went down when citizens were able to defend themselves without worrying about the rule of law." "Really?" "Oh yes, when every house was suddenly a fortress filled with gun toting rednecks, burglary dropped faster than you could try to explain why." [/quote] Quoted the wrong post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348866781' post='2487700'] End all legal tender laws, end the Fed, and permit competing currencies. Scaling back Federal power. That's what I'm mainly supporting, right now. You're still upset over a normative position. I don't believe we'll ever achieve broad anarcho-capitalism. I don't think we'll ever get rid of rape, either. That doesn't mean I'm going to approve of it. I'm a member of organizations seeking such things. I write to the things in Congress, and I donate to certain causes. I'm not advocating planning your life or instituting massive organizations to solve society's problems. Here's the thing: I'm not going to convince you here. Stern didn't convince me here. Nihil didn't. I read. Entire books. I started with economics/history. It took a long, long time. You strike me as a minarchist. I don't know if you prefer the Constitution or the AoC, or if you even believe the Federal government has any limits. Maybe you're a utilitarian. [/quote] You got me I’ve never actually read books on Anarchy, and yes I believe in small government. Still I believe my questions are basic and practical and need clear solid answers. Every form of government I can think of I’ve seen Anarchists condemn. Then when asked what form of government would be better they don’t have an answer. I have a big problem with that. This lack of positive direction seems to be inherent to Anarchists movements of the past. While some were successful in defeating the State, there was no clear plan where to go from there and the movement ended up being used by Dictators to grab power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 [img]http://www.digitaljournal.com/img/5/9/2/8/1/2/i/1/2/6/o/tard2.JPG[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348866781' post='2487700'] End all legal tender laws, end the Fed, and permit competing currencies. Scaling back Federal power. That's what I'm mainly supporting, right now. You're still upset over a normative position. I don't believe we'll ever achieve broad anarcho-capitalism. I don't think we'll ever get rid of rape, either. That doesn't mean I'm going to approve of it. I'm a member of organizations seeking such things. I write to the things in Congress, and I donate to certain causes. I'm not advocating planning your life or instituting massive organizations to solve society's problems. Here's the thing: I'm not going to convince you here. Stern didn't convince me here. Nihil didn't. I read. Entire books. I started with economics/history. It took a long, long time. You strike me as a minarchist. I don't know if you prefer the Constitution or the AoC, or if you even believe the Federal government has any limits. Maybe you're a utilitarian. [/quote] Wow. Although little, and usually squelched in your manner of firebomb posts, it is nice to find evidence t hat you do posess some pragmatic practicality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1349043374' post='2488547'] You got me I’ve never actually read books on Anarchy, and yes I believe in small government. Still I believe my questions are basic and practical and need clear solid answers. Every form of government I can think of I’ve seen Anarchists condemn. Then when asked what form of government would be better they don’t have an answer. I have a big problem with that. This lack of positive direction seems to be inherent to Anarchists movements of the past. While some were successful in defeating the State, there was no clear plan where to go from there and the movement ended up being used by Dictators to grab power. [/quote] No movement is monolithic, if there's more than one member. Anarchist is a term. Anyone can use it. Minarchism, too. I'm sure many Tea-partiers would consider themselves minarchists, although they would probably accept government regulation of the market, "reasonable" gun control, foreign intervention, and a host of other actions by the State that I would find intolerable and not at all in keeping with "small government". It still seems to me that you want a central plan to replace the central plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1349094506' post='2488739'] Wow. Although little, and usually squelched in your manner of firebomb posts, it is nice to find evidence t hat you do posess some [s]pragmatic [/s]practicality. [/quote] The actions are not justified. It's not pragmatism. It's the lesser of evils, and it remains evil. It does not become good. Taxation. It might actually be inevitable, in this world. It might even be a better choice (not universally). But it doesn't thereby become good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1349097683' post='2488758'] The actions are not justified. It's not pragmatism. It's the lesser of evils, and it remains evil. It does not become good. Taxation. It might actually be inevitable, in this world. It might even be a better choice (not universally). But it doesn't thereby become good. [/quote] Fair enough, though I would disagree. As an analogy, taxes are like Vitamin D. A little is required and is good, too much and it'll make you sick and possibly kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1349098830' post='2488762'] Fair enough, though I would disagree. As an analogy, taxes are like Vitamin D. A little is required and is good, too much and it'll make you sick and possibly kill you. [/quote] When does taking property cease to become theft and instead become taxation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1349099436' post='2488765'] When does taking property cease to become theft and instead become taxation? [/quote]when you agree to purchase a good or service, agree to terms of payment (cash, credit cad, tax). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1349103364' post='2488777'] when you agree to purchase a good or service, agree to terms of payment (cash, credit cad, tax). [/quote] That's not how government goes about it. Agree or not, you're paying. Also, that wouldn't be "taking". That would be trading. Edited October 1, 2012 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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