2 Party System Vs. 3+ Party System

[Winchester]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1348811466' post='2487524']
Sorry, Winchester, but without a common law there can't be any sort of order. Unfortunately not everyone is a devout Catholic and has the Bible and the Church to go by on what to do and what not to do.
[/quote]
How does this translate to a need for a modern state?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348844114' post='2487590']
How does this translate to a need for a modern state?
[/quote]

What kind of governmental system or rule of law should replace the state? In other words how would government work under an anarchy system?

Also I've asked this before but you weren't able to give a clear answer... How would this government prosecute accused murderers that do not recognize the government? I recall you stating that anyone could in some way arrest accused murders and some vague response about how this person could be prosecuted. But I don’t like the idea of anyone being able to arrest anyone accused of murder.

[Winchester]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1348847847' post='2487614']
What kind of governmental system or rule of law should replace the state? In other words how would government work under an anarchy system?

Also I've asked this before but you weren't able to give a clear answer... How would this government prosecute accused murderers that do not recognize the government? I recall you stating that anyone could in some way arrest accused murders and some vague response about how this person could be prosecuted. But I don’t like the idea of anyone being able to arrest anyone accused of murder.
[/quote]
So you're complaining that in the absence of coercion by a small group of people, I cannot predict the myriad ways order would arise.

Yeah. You got me.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348854202' post='2487634']
So you're complaining that in the absence of coercion by a small group of people, I cannot predict the myriad ways order would arise.

Yeah. You got me.
[/quote]

It really wasn't meant to be a got'ca question. It was meant to be what it was, an important and honest question, one that should be answered.

Before ridding ourselves of the State, or advocating that, there should be some solid idea of what type of government should be in place in an anarchy system. There needs to be order and some form of government and anarchists need to have a better idea of how order and government would work under their system. I am sorry if it offends you but I never hear anarchists give any solid ideas of how government would work under an anarchy system, only things I hear are negative, like how bad the state is and what it should not do and how it should not act. Again no offensive to you, but it makes it seem the movement is more about a cry of wrath than about how to create better governance and order.

Edited September 28, 2012 by KnightofChrist

[Winchester]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1348855489' post='2487639']
It really wasn't meant to be a got'ca question. It was meant to be what it was, an important and honest question, one that should be answered.

Before ridding ourselves of the State, or advocating that, there should be some solid idea of what type of government should be in place in an anarchy system. There needs to be order and some form of government and anarchists need to have a better idea of how order and government would work under their system. I am sorry if it offends you but I never hear anarchists give any solid ideas of how government would work under an anarchy system, only things I hear are negative, like how bad the state is and what it should not do and how it should not act. Again no offensive to you, but it makes it seem the movement is more about a cry of wrath than about how to create better governance and order.
[/quote]
Which anarchists have you been reading?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348856582' post='2487643']

Which anarchists have you been reading?
[/quote]

I can't recall names, posting from phone, but I've almost always read the links you and Stern post about the State. Then I would check out the rest of the site and the links on that site or sites. I never really seen the answers to my questions. Perhaps though I missed it. Which anarchists have solid answers to my questions?

[Winchester]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1348857186' post='2487645']
I can't recall names, posting from phone, but I've almost always read the links you and Stern post about the State. Then I would check out the rest of the site and the links on that site or sites. I never really seen the answers to my questions. Perhaps though I missed it. Which anarchists have solid answers to my questions?
[/quote]
It seems to me you're asking the same question people ask when someone suggests repealing Obamacare. "What are you going to replace it with?"

You're not going to find a neat little answer. You can read about the Law Merchant. You can read some of Roderick Long's ideas. You can read about Iceland or Ireland. There are no neat answers. Fornication is wrong. What's the suggestion? Proper sexual behavior. But what if I can't find someone to marry me? Answer: Tough poo. Can't rub one out, can't have a one-night stand, etcetera.

Theft is wrong. Even for good stuff. But what about the roads? What if no one wants to build them? Tough. But good stuff will happen if I make people pay for stuff. Too bad. Still not good.

Normative position. Sorry. I'm not prescribing some plan for the world. I'm saying it's wrong when someone initiates violence against another person.

[KnightofChrist]

That's just a big load of bull croutons. Advocating the end of the current order, the State, with no real idea of how to keep law and order after the State is gone is criminal.

[Winchester]

Try now.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Winchester

[Winchester]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1348858697' post='2487651']
That's just a big load of bull croutons. Advocating the end of the current order, the State, with no real idea of how to keep law and order after the State is gone is criminal.
[/quote]
Ah. Not having a single plan is not having any idea. Got it.

[kujo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1348858697' post='2487651']
That's just a big load of bull croutons. Advocating the end of the current order, the State, with no real idea of how to keep law and order after the State is gone is criminal.
[/quote]

It's not criminal; just idiotic.

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348859022' post='2487654']
Ah. Not having a single plan is not having any idea. Got it.
[/quote]

Present a plan or an idea and we can debate it. Until then you're just raging against the machine.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1348859022' post='2487654']

Ah. Not having a single plan is not having any idea. Got it.
[/quote]

You can give more than one plan. I just asked it not be vaguely described and be a solid one, two or three.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1348859141' post='2487655']
Present a plan or an idea and we can debate it. Until then you're just raging against the machine.
[/quote]
Exactly.

Tear the existing building down because it has a leaky roof and then stand in the rain without a clue of what to do next.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1348860265' post='2487666']
Exactly.

Tear the existing building down because it has a leaky roof and then stand in the rain without a clue of what to do next.
[/quote]
Buildings do not steal, murder, coerce, and manipulate.

[Winchester]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1348859255' post='2487656']
You can give more than one plan. I just asked it not be vaguely described and be a solid one, two or three.
[/quote]
End all legal tender laws, end the Fed, and permit competing currencies.

Scaling back Federal power. That's what I'm mainly supporting, right now. You're still upset over a normative position. I don't believe we'll ever achieve broad anarcho-capitalism. I don't think we'll ever get rid of rape, either. That doesn't mean I'm going to approve of it.

I'm a member of organizations seeking such things. I write to the things in Congress, and I donate to certain causes. I'm not advocating planning your life or instituting massive organizations to solve society's problems.

Here's the thing: I'm not going to convince you here. Stern didn't convince me here. Nihil didn't. I read. Entire books. I started with economics/history. It took a long, long time. You strike me as a minarchist. I don't know if you prefer the Constitution or the AoC, or if you even believe the Federal government has any limits. Maybe you're a utilitarian.