Catholic Does Not Equal Gop

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351832945' post='2502738']

Insurance companies are in the business of making money. Its all based on risk, if you are a high risk, they should have the right to deny you coverage or offer you a super super high premium. Whats next? Requiring life insurance companies to give out policies regardless of ones health?
[/quote]

your not even making a fair comparison because life insurance and health insurance are two completely different things. they are not relateable.

[Roamin Catholic]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1351833094' post='2502740']
so you think its moral for someone who develops cancer can be denied by every single insurance company and then be unable to pay for medication and treatments that can prolong and improve quality of life?
[/quote]


So that for-profit business should have to lose money? Sounds like the government sticking its head where it doesn't belong again....Medicare and Medicaid exist for a reason. To serve the poor. Also, that sounds like poor foresight by the cancer patient to not have health insurance before getting sick.


For the record, I have always had health insurance, even when half of my monthly income paid for the premium. I did it because you never know when that illness is going to come. I shouldn't have to pay a higher premium because someone didn't care enough to protect themselves.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351833413' post='2502747']


So that for-profit business should have to lose money? Sounds like the government sticking its head where it doesn't belong again....Medicare and Medicaid exist for a reason. To serve the poor. Also, that sounds like poor foresight by the cancer patient to not have health insurance before getting sick.


For the record, I have always had health insurance, even when half of my monthly income paid for the premium. I did it because you never know when that illness is going to come. I shouldn't have to pay a higher premium because someone didn't care enough to protect themselves.
[/quote]

so basically your saying someone who develops cancer needs to go poor to be properly treated for their cancer? so if you develop cancer then your only option is to get so much debt to be so poor you are below the poverty level? Also you must not know a lot about medicaid and medicare if you think that covers everything.

so i guess the guy who works for a business and the business goes under and fires employees or decalres bankrupcy, that was his fault for letting the business he works for and doesn't own go under. He should have had forsight and read the future? You do know how many small businesses go under every year, right?

so i have a hypothetical business job and have health insurance for my family. if the business goes under and closes and i now have to find a new job and i had cancer and i can't get anyone to give me insurance then i guess that's moral to you?

As a catholic you think its moral that because i lost a job i will now slowly die from my cancer as long as your not charged more? So in your mind that is the moral choice? To be able to deny a person coverage who will then slowly die?

[Roamin Catholic]

[quote]so basically your saying someone who develops cancer needs to go poor to be properly treated for their cancer? so if you develop cancer then your only option is to get so much debt to be so poor you are below the poverty level? Also you must not know a lot about medicaid and medicare if you think that covers everything.[/quote]

I know it doesn't cover anything, hence why you can purchase medi-gap policies if you want. But anywho back to your first point; some company out there will give a policy to a cancer patient, just be happy with the 10K+ deductible and high monthly premium..But not every company should be forced to..


[quote]so i guess the guy who works for a business and the business goes under and fires employees or decalres bankrupcy, that was his fault for letting the business he works for and doesn't own go under. He should have had forsight and read the future? You do know how many small businesses go under every year, right?[/quote]

Doesn't need foresight in this situation, they can get coverage through COBRA


[quote]so i have a hypothetical business job and have health insurance for my family. if the business goes under and closes and i now have to find a new job and i had cancer and i can't get anyone to give me insurance then i guess that's moral to you?[/quote]

COBRA



[quote]As a catholic you think its moral that because i lost a job i will now slowly die from my cancer as long as your not charged more? So in your mind that is the moral choice? To be able to deny a person coverage who will then slowly die?[/quote]

COBRA, you can pay the premium if you so choose. Not my fault if you don't and then get sick..I shouldn't have to pay for your mistakes.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Roamin_Catholic

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351834794' post='2502767']
I know it doesn't cover anything, hence why you can purchase medi-gap policies if you want. But anywho back to your first point; some company out there will give a policy to a cancer patient, just be happy with the 10K+ deductible and high monthly premium..But not every company should be forced to..

Doesn't need foresight in this situation, they can get coverage through COBRA

COBRA

COBRA, you can pay the premium if you so choose.
[/quote]


your saying a company will cover the cancer patient but they don't have to. the person could be denied by all insurance companies. that's the whole point. no insurance compnay has to cover the person and they could be denied by everyone.

you continue to avoid my question over and over. as a practicing catholic, is it moral that a person can be denied from having health insurance and thus slowly die because they can not get the proper medication and treatment? is it moral to deny coverage to people so long as you don't have to pay more money? is it moral that the person will slowly die because they are denied coverage?

[Roamin Catholic]

[quote]
your saying a company will cover the cancer patient but they don't have to. the person could be denied by all insurance companies. that's the whole point. no insurance compnay has to cover the person and they could be denied by everyone.[/quote]

Ok,


[quote]you continue to avoid my question over and over. as a practicing catholic, is it moral that a person can be denied from having health insurance and thus slowly die because they can not get the proper medication and treatment? is it moral to deny coverage to people so long as you don't have to pay more money? is it moral that the person will slowly die because they are denied coverage?[/quote]

If they are sick and walk into the hospital, the hospital by law must treat them. I don't see a moral issue with my position...

FYI, I'll be away from the internet till monday evening, so please do not get offended if I do not reply to you...


Pax

[kujo]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1351835070' post='2502776']
you continue to avoid my question over and over. as a practicing catholic, is it moral that a person can be denied from having health insurance and thus slowly die because they can not get the proper medication and treatment? is it moral to deny coverage to people so long as you don't have to pay more money? is it moral that the person will slowly die because they are denied coverage?
[/quote]

I'll answer your question: No, it's not moral.

But are businesses subject to Catholic morality? If so, who is to be the auditor of this new ethic? Should the U.S. government be empowered to evaluate and enforce?

[Roamin Catholic]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1351835410' post='2502779']

I'll answer your question: No, it's not moral.
[/quote]

Denying health insurance is a moral issue?? Hardly.

Denying one health care is indeed a moral issue, but I'm not saying we should deny healthcare to someone.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351835352' post='2502778']
Ok,




If they are sick and walk into the hospital, the hospital by law must treat them. I don't see a moral issue with my position...

FYI, I'll be away from the internet till monday evening, so please do not get offended if I do not reply to you...


Pax
[/quote]


i'm not trying to be offensive but you obviously have no idea how hospitals work when it comes to people who need care for a chronic condition. they treat you emergency's. they treat you for what you come in for. although the er will not give you chemo treatments when you come in. the er will not fill your prescriptions for you. the doctor will write your prescriptions for you but they won't fill them free of charge.

this growing sentiment that you walk into a hospital and they will treat you for anything and everything is absolutely false. i know how hospital's work and how doctors work. i take patients there for my job. this growing notion is absolutely false.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351835582' post='2502781']

Denying health insurance is a moral issue?? Hardly.

Denying one health care is indeed a moral issue, but I'm not saying we should deny healthcare to someone.
[/quote]


but denying health insurance is denying healthcare. unless someone can easily pull 200,000 dollars out of no where to cover his needed heart transplant. without health insurance your not getting that transplant until its to late and you come into the hospital with either an acute MI or in cardiac arrest.

[havok579257]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1351835410' post='2502779']

I'll answer your question: No, it's not moral.

But are businesses subject to Catholic morality? If so, who is to be the auditor of this new ethic? Should the U.S. government be empowered to evaluate and enforce?
[/quote]

everyone is subject to catholic morality because it is God's morality.

[kujo]

Oh yeah. I can totally roll up to my local ER and get a round of chemo and brain surgery on the cheap. No problemo.

[havok579257]

another example is medicare. with medicare you get 30 days ina rehab center. that's it. then your booted out. no matter if you need more rehab or not. do you know how much time and money is wasted because a person was booted out of a rehab center after 30 days but can either not deal with their condition or not care for themselfs in their current condition because they have no healed properly and so on a weekly basis is calling 911 for an ambulance transport(1200 just to transport, does not count milegae, does not count any supplies used) to go to the hospital to try to get help and is told you need rehab but medicare won't pay for it and then they are discharged with pain medication. it happens.

Edited November 2, 2012 by havok579257

[missionseeker]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1351833094' post='2502740']
so you think its moral for someone who develops cancer can be denied by every single insurance company and then be unable to pay for medication and treatments that can prolong and improve quality of life?
[/quote]

The original purpose of health insurance was not to cover every little thing. It was much like car insurance, actually. You need it, you pay for it for if you have a wreck. But you still have to pay for gas and for oil changes. When people expect insurance to pay for everything it gets difficult. (And I haven't decided how i think this problem should be handled. I tend to think it would be a good idea to get rid of insurance altogether except for emergencies. The insurance costs caused health care costs to sky rocket.)

That said, most doctors are willing to work with patients without insurance. I know my eye doctor offers people without insurance the same price as though on Medicare. I think that is a valid way to do it. Most hospitals you can haggle with, believe it or not. The price the insurance pays is drastically different from what you are charged. I don't know enough about how this works to say much more, but I have had to haggle with them. They will settle for HUNDREDS of dollars less than they charge.

I have really good insurance right now. I have quite a few things that are wrong (back problems, asthma, etc.) and I am grateful. But I have been in the situation where I could not get help for medical issues (like asthma) because I couldn't afford it.

I don't think applying moral standards to insurance companies is going to work. Which means that a company has the right to deny someone coverage.

[havok579257]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1351836600' post='2502797']
The original purpose of health insurance was not to cover every little thing. It was much like car insurance, actually. You need it, you pay for it for if you have a wreck. But you still have to pay for gas and for oil changes. When people expect insurance to pay for everything it gets difficult. (And I haven't decided how i think this problem should be handled. I tend to think it would be a good idea to get rid of insurance altogether except for emergencies. The insurance costs caused health care costs to sky rocket.)

That said, most doctors are willing to work with patients without insurance. I know my eye doctor offers people without insurance the same price as though on Medicare. I think that is a valid way to do it. Most hospitals you can haggle with, believe it or not. The price the insurance pays is drastically different from what you are charged. I don't know enough about how this works to say much more, but I have had to haggle with them. They will settle for HUNDREDS of dollars less than they charge.

I have really good insurance right now. I have quite a few things that are wrong (back problems, asthma, etc.) and I am grateful. But I have been in the situation where I could not get help for medical issues (like asthma) because I couldn't afford it.

I don't think applying moral standards to insurance companies is going to work. Which means that a company has the right to deny someone coverage.
[/quote]

i think we should apply moral standards to every person and business. does the church teach that not everyone has moral responsibilities?

the hospital can do nothing fore your no life threatening conditions. such as cancer and needed chemo treatments and medication therapy for cancer. there is no payment plan a avergae person can work out with the hospital for chemo treatments(the cost is way to much). oh the hospital will treat you when you get there but they will not let you come in on a weekley basis for chemo and wil not fill your medication on a monthly basis for free or on a payment plan. it doesn't work that way when it comes to things that are not life threatening and costhow much chemo costs.