Winchester Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 [quote name='XIX' timestamp='1347030805' post='2479825'] tldr: I'm voting for Ron Paul, and rooting for Mitt from the sidelines. [/quote] If the Libertarian party gets a certain percentage, it will get some government money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1347031122' post='2479828'] If the Libertarian party gets a certain percentage, it will get some government money. [/quote] I believe that was 5% in years past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1347031122' post='2479828'] If the Libertarian party gets a certain percentage, it will get some government money. [/quote]Statist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1347030134' post='2479821'] I think it is being pointed out that at this stage of the Presidential Election, there are only two choices. The time and place to support other options such as third parties or persons representing desired ideals is Local and State elections and political operations. That is when alternative voices are most viable and ideological foundations are established. Someone posted the moral quandary of piling a switch to choose between killing one or five people. Ignoring the fact that the choices now are between two Known outcomes, the bigger question was what were people doing while the persons were being rounded up and wired to the switch? Instead of lamenting the choice you have now, why didn't you do something to prevent the limited choice late in the game? [/quote]. Whosaid I didn't ? Just because we are late in the game and third parties don't have a choice doesn't mean I'm going to side with one of two choices that I cannot reconcile with my beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 [quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1347027039' post='2479805'] I live in Alabama. Generally don't have this problem in local elections. Perhaps if I lived in a swing state, it would be different. But I don't. So maybe there's that. Even then, I dont think I would. I participated in a lot government stuff in high school. Met a lot of politicians who realize that they don't have to be as accountable for their actions precisely because of the way the system works. That's not right. Trusting that ppl will reelect you just because they have no other choice is something that shouldn't happen. And the reason they do is because we continue to vote for people who run knowing that this is what we do. It's a messed up system and I'm not giving in to it anymore. I honestly think that if more people didn't then more good would come out of it than if we continue to vote for the least bad candidate. Would that perhaps cause the reelection of Obama? I don't know. It's possible. But would 4years of intense badness be worse than decades of this pansyness that is embodied by the current nominees? Will anything change if candidates like Romney keep getting elected on the basis of being the lesser of two evils? Sometimes great change only comes after great ill. And it's sad that that is way to make people realize what has happened. I hope to God that doesn't happen. But I am not naive about the possibility of it happening. But I cannot reconcile a vote for Romney with my faith or my love of this country. [/quote] I understand what you are saying. I do not believe by simply not voting for the official nominees will change the anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1347032654' post='2479835'] Statist! [/quote] Strategery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 The 3rd party strategery will work in all 57 States! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 [quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1347027039' post='2479805' .[u].Will anything change if candidates like Romney keep getting elected on the basis of being the lesser of two evils?[/u] [b]Sometimes great change only comes after great ill[/b]. And it's sad that that is way to make people realize what has happened. I hope to God that doesn't happen. But I am not naive about the possibility of it happening. But I cannot reconcile a vote for Romney with my faith or my love of this country. [/quote] [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1347027292' post='2479807'] I know plenty of devout catholics and Religious who feel the exact same way and will be voting for Romney ... I have yet to find a third party candidate who shines with perfection ... I'm going with the only guy who can get obama out of the white house ... [/quote] Ron Paul.....ahem...... The mere negation of a person or problem in of itself does not mean the solution is "anything else." Romney is just like Obama. He will get elected, not because he is Romney, but because he is not Obama. Remember how Obama got elected? He wasn't Bush!!! Know how Romney will lose? Because his future opponent won't be him. The system will keep going on! No one is getting elected because of principles, but rather [b]negations[/b]. [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1347030134' post='2479821'] I think it is being pointed out that at this stage of the Presidential Election, there are only two choices. The time and place to support other options such as third parties or persons representing desired ideals is Local and State elections and political operations. That is when alternative voices are most viable and ideological foundations are established. Someone posted the moral quandary of piling a switch to choose between killing one or five people. Ignoring the fact that the choices now are between two Known outcomes, the bigger question was what were people doing while the persons were being rounded up and wired to the switch? Instead of lamenting the choice you have now, why didn't you do something to prevent the limited choice late in the game? [/quote] I did work to get Ron Paul elected. But he was[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B39W91O-rUg"] stopped by the RNC [/url]that made beaver dam sure he didn't get a chance to even lose legitimately or fairly. Actually I would argue we do not have two known outcomes. Romney is a big mystery box with all indications and history that he will fail the moral right. That's a TERRIBLE price to sell your vote. Judas at least got 30 pieces of silver; all we are getting is vague references in speeches. [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1347034147' post='2479843'] I understand what you are saying. I do not believe by simply not voting for the official nominees will change the anything. [/quote] I reverse this. I do not believe by simply voting for the official nominees will change anything. So what now? Are you going to keep supporting the system and ensure no change happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Did Ron Paul even win a primary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 [quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1347050301' post='2479977'] I reverse this. I do not believe by simply voting for the official nominees will change anything. So what now? Are you going to keep supporting the system and ensure no change happens? [/quote] I don't know this "supporting the system". All I can do is support the candidates I believe are right. Not voting for someone just b/c he is a candidate of "the system" seems childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1347055116' post='2480049'] I don't know this "supporting the system". All I can do is support the candidates I believe are right. Not voting for someone just b/c he is a candidate of "the system" seems childish. [/quote] If the rules aren't fair, I would rather not play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 All right, this debate is over. The answer is right here: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcMWnNcOxg4[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1347055116' post='2480049'] I don't know this "supporting the system". All I can do is support the candidates I believe are right. Not voting for someone just b/c he is a candidate of "the system" seems childish. [/quote] If you have actually been reading this thread, and following my complaints, you know very well that my decision and arguments extend beyond certain people simply being part of the "system." To portray my arguments and reasons as you did is rather childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1347051647' post='2480009'] Did Ron Paul even win a primary? [/quote] [url="http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/candidates/302"]http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/candidates/302[/url] [url="http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/scorecard/statebystate/r"]http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/scorecard/statebystate/r[/url] Perhaps most helpful [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2012_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries#Convention_Roll_Call"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2012_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries#Convention_Roll_Call[/url] Note that Ron Paul ended up with 190 delegates despite the [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B39W91O-rUg"]cheating at the RNC convention by Romney people and the party bosses[/url] that certainly affected his delegate count. For a guy who speaks and actually stands up for what he believes in, despite the media ignoring him, [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLonnC_ZWQ0"]despite the media misrepresenting his views[/url], despite the RNC blatantly cheating, despite getting shunned even though [url="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/We_the_People_Act"]he offered the best, quickest, and most practical way to end abortion, defend marriage, and ban embryonic stem cell treatment[/url], I would say he did very well. Because any real change in this country will only begin with real candidates with real principles that defend life, liberty, and fiscal responsibility. If I voted for people because they would win, or were winning, I would have voted for Obama in 2008. If I voted based on financial reasons, I would vote Romney in 2012. But since I vote for the best reasonable candidate, with a minimum level of integrity, honor, and principles that are based on the defense of innocent life, liberty, and fiscal responsibility, this means I will write in Ron Paul in 2012. I don't vote for the likely winner as many in this country are doing with Romney. The 2008 election was won by a man because he was not the man before him. The 2012 election will be won a man simply because he is not the literal man currently in office. In 2016, a new contender will arise, who will win, because he is not Romney. Keep the status quo! Something random might happen......like King George might have a change of heart.....or the Southern states might randomly free the slaves......or blacks will be allowed to sit in the same seats as white people......or Mitt Romney will severely limit abortion, strongly defend marriage, strongly limit government, and balance the budget while cutting $1 trillion in spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 i'm waiting for this year's jib-jab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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