Romney... Are Mormons Really Pro-life?

[southern california guy]

I can see people groaning "Oh my gawd... why do you feel you have to criticize the Mormons? Can't you just support Romney because he's a Republican and he's a "Christian"?"

I know I know... it's absolutely taboo to bring up the Mormon religion when discussing Romney, but I think that it's essential to understand his viewpoints.

I actually considered joining the Mormon religion. They do a really good job of creating a good image for themselves -- the way they talk, the way they dress, the way they keep their hair short and neat, etc.. And they seem to say a lot of the right things -- "We're family people. We believe in having kids. We're "Pro-life". "

I moved to Utah and got involved with a Mormon Ward. I went through the Missionary Discussions, and went to all of the meetings. But I started hearing what seemed to be differing points of view concerning abortion, so I went to the Stake House and talked to the Bishop. He pulled out the loose leaf "Church Handbook of Instructions" that the Bishops are given. It states the LDS Churches official position on various issues.

Concerning abortion the "Handbook of Instructions" states that the LDS Church is opposed to abortion except for cases of rape, incest, or threat to the womans health. The "Threat to the womans health" is sort of a legalistic loophole because it includes threat to the womans "mental health".

So the LDS Church [b]DOES[/b] believe that there are valid reasons to get an abortion. And they believe that abortions should remain legal.

An LDS woman can try to use the "mental health" argument to justify having an abortion but the "rape" excuse is MUCH easier. There is a lot rape reported in Utah. Is this the reason? I don't know. The Mormon religion is a very controlling religion and the members seem to be very controlling as well, and rape is arguably a control trip, a power trip. So there may actually be a lot of rape in Utah for that reason.

So getting back to Romney is his voting record on abortion really that inconsistent? Perhaps people just don't understand what the Mormon position is. You can argue that the Mormons are anti-abortion [b]AND[/b] you can argue that they're Pro-choice. So would Romney be inclined to elect a judge who was anti-abortion? I doubt it, because the Mormons don't want abortions to be illegal.

And I suppose that the bigger question is "Is the Republican Party really anti-abortion?". It seems to me that they have sort of changed their position -- without even realizing what they've done.

I think that the biggest problem with Obama is that he's a socialist. I'm not sure that he's really much more "Pro-choice" than Romney. I know that he's for public funding of abortions. And Romney supposedly isn't. But I don't really know how Romney would vote. Romney is definitely more Pro-war and probably more Pro-Israel. But when it comes to health care I don't know if Romney is really any better than Obama. Yes Obama's crazy "Obama Care" is over a thousand pages and Obama himself doesn't even know what's in it. But would Romney really be opposed to that? The Mormons are huge users of prescription anti-depressants and stimulants -- and they would love to have their drugs publicly funded. If Romney chose to support Federal health care I don't think the fact that abortion was supported by it would bother him at all.

[Ed Normile]

I do not even know what you are asking/stating. Your points you make seem more like rumor and accusation, especially the hint at mormons being controlling and rape being a control issue as to why , in your words " There is a lot of rape reported in Utah " it really sounds as if you are saying mormons rape a lot because they are so controlling. Did you read statistics stating that the " The Mormons are huge users of prescription anti-depressants and stimulants -- and they would love to have their drugs publicly funded." or is that another case of your opinion being posted as truth?

As far as Obama being more or less pro choice than Romney, look at their voting records, Obama has consistently been an advocate of all abortion even late term, Obama is also very vocal proponent of euthanasia. Romney has promised to veto the Obama-care if that helps you out any.

ed

Edited September 1, 2012 by Ed Normile

[Vincent Vega]

Mormons are very pro-life. I can't ascertain whether Romney is pro-life.

[Anomaly]

Both parties are pro life, they just differ on whom they want to live.

[BG45]

I know Romney's record is quite mixed on whether he's pro-life or not. Jon Stewart once joked that the unit of time "The Romney" was the amount of time it took him to do a complete 180 on a deeply held belief.

A few years ago, Romney at least signed a law that [url="http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/07d/buffer_bill_110107.html"]included public funding for abortion and established Planned Parenthood as an official adviser to the government in Massachusetts[/url]; after he donated money to Citizens for Life. NARAL has [url="http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/2012/gop-presidential-candidates/mitt-romney.html"]criticized him for going from pro-choice to anti-choice.[/url] Jane Romney, his sister, says [url="http://www.nationaljournal.com/2012-election/jane-romney-my-brother-won-t-ban-abortion-20120829"]he's very in the middle on abortion[/url], and that it shouldn't be an issue at all.

[Groo the Wanderer]

he is somewhat pro-life which is way more than der fuhrer. ryan is very pro life which means we could get him after romney. not a bad improvement over the present deathmonger, methinks.

[4588686]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1346544846' post='2477373']
he is somewhat pro-life which is way more than der fuhrer. ryan is very pro life which means we could get him after romney. not a bad improvement over the present deathmonger, methinks.
[/quote]


That's true. Except for that brief period of time, when, you know, he held public office. But I'm sure he really, really means it now. It's not like he has any reason to lie.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1346544846' post='2477373']
he is somewhat pro-life ......
[/quote]

the party appreciates you lowering your standards....

they promise not to let you down this time! double pinkie swear!

[Papist]

Romney is running for President, not the Mormon Church.

[Annie12]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1346530214' post='2477265']
I can see people groaning "Oh my gawd... why do you feel you have to criticize the Mormons? Can't you just support Romney because he's a Republican and he's a "Christian"?"

I know I know... it's absolutely taboo to bring up the Mormon religion when discussing Romney, but I think that it's essential to understand his viewpoints.

I actually considered joining the Mormon religion. They do a really good job of creating a good image for themselves -- the way they talk, the way they dress, the way they keep their hair short and neat, etc.. And they seem to say a lot of the right things -- "We're family people. We believe in having kids. We're "Pro-life". "

I moved to Utah and got involved with a Mormon Ward. I went through the Missionary Discussions, and went to all of the meetings. But I started hearing what seemed to be differing points of view concerning abortion, so I went to the Stake House and talked to the Bishop. He pulled out the loose leaf "Church Handbook of Instructions" that the Bishops are given. It states the LDS Churches official position on various issues.

Concerning abortion the "Handbook of Instructions" states that the LDS Church is opposed to abortion except for cases of rape, incest, or threat to the womans health. The "Threat to the womans health" is sort of a legalistic loophole because it includes threat to the womans "mental health".

So the LDS Church [b]DOES[/b] believe that there are valid reasons to get an abortion. And they believe that abortions should remain legal.

An LDS woman can try to use the "mental health" argument to justify having an abortion but the "rape" excuse is MUCH easier. There is a lot rape reported in Utah. Is this the reason? I don't know. The Mormon religion is a very controlling religion and the members seem to be very controlling as well, and rape is arguably a control trip, a power trip. So there may actually be a lot of rape in Utah for that reason.

So getting back to Romney is his voting record on abortion really that inconsistent? Perhaps people just don't understand what the Mormon position is. You can argue that the Mormons are anti-abortion [b]AND[/b] you can argue that they're Pro-choice. So would Romney be inclined to elect a judge who was anti-abortion? I doubt it, because the Mormons don't want abortions to be illegal.

And I suppose that the bigger question is "Is the Republican Party really anti-abortion?". It seems to me that they have sort of changed their position -- without even realizing what they've done.

I think that the biggest problem with Obama is that he's a socialist. I'm not sure that he's really much more "Pro-choice" than Romney. I know that he's for public funding of abortions. And Romney supposedly isn't. But I don't really know how Romney would vote. Romney is definitely more Pro-war and probably more Pro-Israel. But when it comes to health care I don't know if Romney is really any better than Obama. Yes Obama's crazy "Obama Care" is over a thousand pages and Obama himself doesn't even know what's in it. But would Romney really be opposed to that? The Mormons are huge users of prescription anti-depressants and stimulants -- and they would love to have their drugs publicly funded. If Romney chose to support Federal health care I don't think the fact that abortion was supported by it would bother him at all.
[/quote]

So, I do realize that the Mormon concept of protecting life is not like the catholic concept. But I rather vote for Romney Who says he will veto the health care law and deffend the Catholic Church on religious libertery,[u] than for Obama who will try to detroy everything Catholics live for[/u]. Electing Romney would be one move towards outlawing abortion, sometime in the future.[u] Obama...not so much[/u].

Edited September 2, 2012 by Annie12

[havok579257]

obama os just as pro-life as romney? have you at all followed the last 4 years? seriously? obama voted to kill babies who survived a botched abortion. he said kill them even if they survive an abortion an are born. that is the most anti-life thing a politician supported and he was the only one who supported it.

obama is 100% against the catholic church, is against a babies right to life and against true marriage. obama is the most pro-abortion president in history. comparing romney's stance on abortion to obama's is a joke.

[PhuturePriest]

I don't think comparing an infanticide-loving psycho to a guy with five kids and nine thousand grandchildren is a good comparison, especially since Romney is pro-life.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1346555540' post='2477449']
I don't think comparing an infanticide-loving psycho to a guy with five kids and nine thousand grandchildren is a good comparison, especially since Romney is pro-life. [sub] *except in certain cases, then he's razzle dazzle with killing the baby[/sub]
[/quote]

fixed for you

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1346555810' post='2477452']
fixed for you
[/quote]

He said at the convention he would outlaw abortion in all cases. I know politicians seem to say a lot, but this is what he said.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1346541497' post='2477343']
I do not even know what you are asking/stating. Your points you make seem more like rumor and accusation, especially the hint at mormons being controlling and rape being a control issue as to why , in your words " There is a lot of rape reported in Utah " it really sounds as if you are saying mormons rape a lot because they are so controlling. Did you read statistics stating that the " The Mormons are huge users of prescription anti-depressants and stimulants -- and they would love to have their drugs publicly funded." or is that another case of your opinion being posted as truth?
[/quote]

It's a fact that the Mormons are bigger than average users of stimulants and anti-depressants. But it would take a little bit of work for me to find the reference that I'm thinking of. But I'll tell you about it.

When I was living in Utah there was an article in the newspaper arguing that anti-depressant and stimulant usage was no higher than any other state in the nation. They gave numbers and even quoted a BYU statistics professor. But the percentages that they got didn't look right to me so I did the math for myself and my results didn't agree with the article. I posted it on the internet and I had several mathematicians correct my math -- and show me that the prescription anti-depressant usage were actually fifty percent higher per capita than for the rest of the nation! That sort of touched off a letter writing campaign to the newspaper, but only one letter was published.

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1346541497' post='2477343']
As far as Obama being more or less pro choice than Romney, look at their voting records, Obama has consistently been an advocate of all abortion even late term, Obama is also very vocal proponent of euthanasia. Romney has promised to veto the Obama-care if that helps you out any.

ed
[/quote]

Yes Obama is definitely very pro-abortion. There's no question about that. But if I remember correctly Romney has swayed back and forth about whether he's for or against Federal Heath Care.