Fr. Benedict Groeschel - Child Abuse Comments

[Nihil Obstat]

So it appears today that Fr. Groeschel [url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/father-groeschel-steps-down-from-ewtn-show/"]has stepped down[/url] from EWTN.

Seems to be a good move. If this weird comment is partially because of his recent injury, then it would be irresponsible of him to continue in a position where he might do the same thing again, and it would be irresponsible of his religious community to allow him to continue. He should rest and recuperate and, if possible, get back to a point where his mind is working clearly again.

[emmaberry]

This thread makes me sad-not the OP, but just what has happened to this poor servant of God.

As humiliating as aging can be, I have a feeling that it is designed by God to prepare our soul for death by increasing our humility. What a humbling/humiliating experience for Father.. I am sad to see him resign, but glad that it will diminish the chances of something similar occurring again.

[PhuturePriest]

I was afraid something like that would happen. I hope he comes back again soon.

[4588686]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1346829157' post='2478669']
This thread makes me sad-not the OP, but just what has happened to this poor servant of God.

As humiliating as aging can be, I have a feeling that it is designed by God to prepare our soul for death by increasing our humility. What a humbling/humiliating experience for Father.. I am sad to see him resign, but glad that it will diminish the chances of something similar occurring again.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but I guess this type of response intimates WHY the systemic abuse was allowed to occur for so long. I have not seen ANYBODY here question if perhaps these really are/were his views. I see everybody talking about the poor Fr. but I see nobody going "oh poo, this man taught pastoral care to prospective Priests and ran a boys home for years and years, is there a chance he really believes this stuff?!" All I see are excuses. Which is understandable. I understand how emotionally attached Catholics get to their Priests. But I think this exemplifies where the failure occurred. People are so eager to jump to the defense of a Priest and so slow to seriously question probe what his views really are it pretty disturbing. Maybe the Fr. is just slipping. But he said that his way of expressing himself is slipping but offered no clarification of what he *wanted* to say. Why are people just taking him at his word that he somehow misspoke? He didn't claim to misspeak until after he got in trouble, then he suddenly played the old man card.

I don't have any animus towards Fr. Groeschel. When I was younger I wanted to be in his order. And he has done a lot of good in his life. But he seemed pretty lucid in his response. And given what he said and what positions he occupied within the Church I think that people kind of owe it to the kiddies to actually do a bit more digging than 'well once he got in trouble he said he didn't express himself correctly, and he has no reason to lie, so case closed, poor Fr. Benedict ;'( "

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1346443264' post='2476831']
High school girls come on to young male teachers quite frequently, you can't tell me they don't know exactly what they are doing....
[/quote]


Wow. It's strange that people have lost faith in the Church in the wake of the abuse scandal given comments like these. I agree. A 14 year old is definitely old enough to really understand the emotional and psychological harm that can come from engaging in sex before they are ready for it.

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1346443991' post='2476847']
[url="http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/primary-sources/24"]http://chnm.gmu.edu/...mary-sources/24[/url] Notice the dates
[/quote]

This is unbelievable. When I made the argument that Muhammad was not necessarily a pedophile for marrying Ai'sha and that the norms of when women ought were in flux over time, you made a sarky comments about how discussing pedophilia was not appropriate on the forums. Now you are trying to make the exact argument when it comes to defending a Priest. In fact, you're doing so while intimating that the 12-on-up-year-old was kind of asking for a good roll in the hay.

Yes. Puberty changes. Our understanding of when and where the weaker party in a marriage contract has the power to not consent to sex has changed. There was a time when a 10 year old was viewed as an appropriate target of lust. We now know that it's not necessarily helpful for a kid to be thrown into the sexual deep end of the pool as soon as they begin puberty. That's compounded when that child is not living in a social context where a sexual relationship between them and the other person is accepted and the 'relationship' is surrounded in secrecy and gilt.

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1346444611' post='2476861']
We had a recent case in the area where a high school girl came on to a youngish teacher. After he was compromised she passed around to all her friends the texts etc. and of course her parents found out. Naturally he lost his job, his wife and his home. Nothing much happened to her.
[/quote]

Yeah. We definitely aren't tough enough on girls who have be statutorily raped.

[4588686]

I'm not saying lynch Fr. G, by the way. I'm not saying he's the scum of the earth and has no redeeming qualities. I'm just saying, given all the instruction he's given to seminarians and the fact that he ran a boys home for a long time, I'd think there'd be less of a drive to make excuses for him and more of a drive to discover 1) is there any reason to believe that he on any level believes what he said and 2) is there any reason to believe that these beliefs, if he held them, in any way impacted the instruction to gave to Priests or how he ran his boys home. Even good people, and I do thing Fr. G counts as a good person overall, can let terrible things happen when they equivocate or make excuses for the evil deeds of others. But given his positions, this really merits more scrutiny than 'oh, I'm sure he didn't really mean it.'

[Innocent]

I've read a couple of Fr. Groeschel's books, and am very grateful to him for the spiritual benefit they have given me.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1346847676' post='2478691']
I'm sorry, but I guess this type of response intimates WHY the systemic abuse was allowed to occur for so long. I have not seen ANYBODY here question if perhaps these really are/were his views. I see everybody talking about the poor Fr. but I see nobody going "oh poo, this man taught pastoral care to prospective Priests and ran a boys home for years and years, is there a chance he really believes this stuff?!" All I see are excuses. Which is understandable. I understand how emotionally attached Catholics get to their Priests. But I think this exemplifies where the failure occurred. People are so eager to jump to the defense of a Priest and so slow to seriously question probe what his views really are it pretty disturbing. Maybe the Fr. is just slipping. But he said that his way of expressing himself is slipping but offered no clarification of what he *wanted* to say. Why are people just taking him at his word that he somehow misspoke? He didn't claim to misspeak until after he got in trouble, then he suddenly played the old man card.

I don't have any animus towards Fr. Groeschel. When I was younger I wanted to be in his order. And he has done a lot of good in his life. But he seemed pretty lucid in his response. And given what he said and what positions he occupied within the Church I think that people kind of owe it to the kiddies to actually do a bit more digging than 'well once he got in trouble he said he didn't express himself correctly, and he has no reason to lie, so case closed, poor Fr. Benedict ;'( "
[/quote]


[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1346849389' post='2478700']
I'm not saying lynch Fr. G, by the way. I'm not saying he's the scum of the earth and has no redeeming qualities. I'm just saying, given all the instruction he's given to seminarians and the fact that he ran a boys home for a long time, I'd think there'd be less of a drive to make excuses for him and [b]more of a drive to discover 1) is there any reason to believe that he on any level believes what he said and 2) is there any reason to believe that these beliefs, if he held them, in any way impacted the instruction to gave to Priests or how he ran his boys home.[/b] Even good people, and I do thing Fr. G counts as a good person overall, can let terrible things happen when they equivocate or make excuses for the evil deeds of others. But given his positions, this really merits more scrutiny than 'oh, I'm sure he didn't really mean it.'
[/quote]

As highly painful as it may be for Fr. Groeschel and those of us who admire him, a transparent investigation such as that suggested above may be the best way to fully demonstrate his innocence in the eyes of several non-Catholics in the world, and quench any exaggerations or rumours that may start as a result of this episode.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1346848805' post='2478699']
Yeah. We definitely aren't tough enough on girls who have be statutorily raped.
[/quote]

Age of consent is 16 here, and it was certainly not rape.
His life was destroyed, other than some publicity, she was fine, off to college.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1346848067' post='2478693']
Wow. It's strange that people have lost faith in the Church in the wake of the abuse scandal given comments like these. I agree. A 14 year old is definitely old enough to really understand the emotional and psychological harm that can come from engaging in sex before they are ready for it.
[/quote]
Did you see me mention 14 year olds? High school is 16-18.

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1346861802' post='2478760']
Age of consent is 16 here, and it was certainly not rape.
His life was destroyed, other than some publicity, she was fine, off to college.
[/quote]



[url="http://knowledgebase.findlaw.com/kb/2010/Oct/208396.html"]http://knowledgebase.findlaw.com/kb/2010/Oct/208396.html[/url]


According to this what he could have been charged with a felony. A 16 year old came onto him, an adult. If he didn't know how to say no then he had no business being a teacher and his wife should have left him.

When my brother was 16 I would visit home for the summer from school. His female friends would hit on me. Somehow, I managed to not have sex with them. Yay me!

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1346849389' post='2478700']
I'm not saying lynch Fr. G, by the way. I'm not saying he's the scum of the earth and has no redeeming qualities. I'm just saying, given all the instruction he's given to seminarians and the fact that he ran a boys home for a long time, I'd think there'd be less of a drive to make excuses for him and more of a drive to discover 1) is there any reason to believe that he on any level believes what he said and 2) is there any reason to believe that these beliefs, if he held them, in any way impacted the instruction to gave to Priests or how he ran his boys home. Even good people, and I do thing Fr. G counts as a good person overall, can let terrible things happen when they equivocate or make excuses for the evil deeds of others. But given his positions, this really merits more scrutiny than 'oh, I'm sure he didn't really mean it.'
[/quote]
hmmm....
you've given me something to think about.

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1346861949' post='2478763']
Did you see me mention 14 year olds? High school is 16-18.
[/quote]

I was 14 when I started HS. I'm not sure what kind of HS system Pennsylvania. Even if the school system in Pennsylvania is weird you you only have grades 11 and 12 in your High School system, that really doesn't matter. And adult having sex with a 16 year old in general is floopied up and the power dynamics that make the relationship inappropriate is much worse if the adult is an a position of authority over the kid, like a teacher. Will a lot of 16 year old girls develop crushes on their teachers? Duh. Happens all the time. That doesn't mean anything. The idea that the poor adult teacher is the victim of the Lolita's charms is ridiculous. Just say no and keep your zipper zipped until she's 18 and not your student. If you can't pass that test then you have no business being in front of a classroom or a congregation.

[cappie]

Some more thoughts as I have found it in 30 years of pastoral ministry see also my earlier post. [i]"Clergy, members of religious orders, and others who work in the name of the Church are in a special position of trust and authority in relation to those who are in their pastoral care, including: parishioners, people seeking advice, the sick, people with a disability, school students."[/i]

All people are created in the image of God and are of equal value. This is the foundation of all pastoral relationships.

Priests have authority conferred upon them by their ordination. Church workers have authority conferred upon them by their appointment. The authority and training associated with their roles means that they have power in pastoral relationships which is always to be exercised in the service of others.

It's incumbent on all priests and church workers in counseling roles to think carefully before providing pastoral ministry to a person with whom you already have a close personal relationship, such as a friend or member of your family. Care is needed because confusion between close personal relationships and pastoral relationships can lead to a loss of objectivity, failure to act in the others best interest and harm to both parties.

Minors should always be viewed -- whether in a social or ministerial situation -- as the restricted individuals they are, that is, they are not independent. Wherever they are and whatever they do should be with the explicit knowledge of the parents or guardian. Also, they are subject to specific civil laws in their own proper state and city which may prohibit certain activities. They are not adults and are not permitted unfettered decisions. Any and all involvement should be approached from this premise.

Edited September 6, 2012 by cappie