PhuturePriest Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Besides, I don't think you are fully understanding my point. Priests are men with weaknesses. Men have times of weakness when it comes to celibacy and they have times of strength (Just as women do). Unfortunately these Priests were at times of weakness and they gave into temptation. Priests sin every day, hopefully most of the time small sins, but sometimes big sins. Priests breaking their promise to chastity has been going on for centuries and we shouldn't be surprised by this, because they are people too and we can't expect them to be perfect. Again, I'm not defending them, but I understand why some Priests would fall into temptation, especially in a world where there is so much stress on having sexual pleasure. Edited August 31, 2012 by FuturePriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1346443991' post='2476847'] [url="http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/primary-sources/24"]http://chnm.gmu.edu/...mary-sources/24[/url] Notice the dates [/quote] I guess we are regressing, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1346443991' post='2476847'] [url="http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/primary-sources/24"]http://chnm.gmu.edu/...mary-sources/24[/url] Notice the dates [/quote] wow. Delaware was flooped up.[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1346444177' post='2476850'] I guess we are regressing, eh? [/quote] what the floopy does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To Jesus Through Mary Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1346443903' post='2476846'] I agree these acts were bad. Never do I defend the acts or the Priests. I am simply trying to put this in perspective. I realize not all teenagers grasp everything they do 100% (I myself question why I get into debates every time I do), but I would have a good grasp of what I was doing if I came onto somebody. I would understand twelve to maybe even early fifteen, but sixteen and seventeen is a little much. Abuse has a lot to do with these cases of seduction by the young men and I do not deny that. [/quote] Teenagers have a lot less grasp then 100%- that is why they are not held legally bound most of them time for crimes. They do not have the same cognitive reasoning as an adult. Adolescence does not equal adult. But if we are going to say "12-early 15" why... they have the ability to seduce also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To Jesus Through Mary Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1346444113' post='2476849'] Besides, I don't think you are fully understanding my point. Priests are men with weaknesses. Men have times of weakness when it comes to celibacy and they have times of strength (Just as women do). Unfortunately these Priests were at times of weakness and they gave into temptation. Priests sin every day, hopefully most of the time small sins, but sometimes big sins. Priests breaking their promise to chastity has been going on for centuries and we shouldn't be surprised by this, because they are people too and we can't expect them to be perfect. Again, I'm not defending them, but I understand why some Priests would fall into temptation, especially in a world where there is so much stress on having sexual pleasure. [/quote] We ALL have the ability to fall into temptation. Celibacy or not. Any ADULT who has sexual relations with a MINOR is in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='To Jesus Through Mary' timestamp='1346444269' post='2476853'] Teenagers have a lot less grasp then 100%- that is why they are not held legally bound most of them time for crimes. They do not have the same cognitive reasoning as an adult. Adolescence does not equal adult. But if we are going to say "12-early 15" why... they have the ability to seduce also. [/quote] And I grasp what you are saying (Perhaps not 100%, but I do ) I do not agree with what these Priests did and I wish they had more strength to refuse their temptations whether they were seduced or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To Jesus Through Mary Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Besides this is the about the Penn State guy not a priest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Children are infantalized today without a doubt. Even the age of 18 is only a formality; for all intents and purposes childhood today extends into the 20s. Could a teenage boy theoretically "seduce" an older man, even a priest? Sure, it's possible, but unlikely in these cases. If anything, a lot of these cases probably involved priests who were abnormally childish themselves and used that as a way to "fit in" with young boys. I know this may cause some disagreement from some people on this phorum, but it is somewhat unnatural for boys to enter the seminary from the time they're teenagers. A lot changes in a person's life from teenage years to maturity, and a lot of young boys probably enter seminary without any real clue about life, even if they are genuinely pious. Then these immature boys become immature men and immature priests (and no I'm not saying that everyone who enters seminary young will be an immature abuser). But, all of this is theoretical, I'm not proposing any of this as an "explanation" of what's gone on the last 50 years, just suggesting the likely areas of explanation. Edited August 31, 2012 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='To Jesus Through Mary' timestamp='1346444269' post='2476853'] Teenagers have a lot less grasp then 100%- that is why they are not held legally bound most of them time for crimes. They do not have the same cognitive reasoning as an adult. Adolescence does not equal adult. But if we are going to say "12-early 15" why... they have the ability to seduce also. [/quote] or why minors can't enter into legally binding contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StClare_OraProNobis Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) [url="http://franciscanfriars.com/for-immediate-release-august-30-2102/"]http://franciscanfri...august-30-2102/[/url] Personal Statement from Fr Benedict Groeschel: "I apologize for my comments. I did not intend to blame the victim. A priest (or anyone else) who abuses a minor is always wrong and is always responsible. My mind and my way of expressing myself are not as clear as they used to be. I have spent my life trying to help others the best that I could. I deeply regret any harm I have caused to anyone." Edited August 31, 2012 by StClare_OraProNobis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='To Jesus Through Mary' timestamp='1346444396' post='2476854'] We ALL have the ability to fall into temptation. Celibacy or not. Any ADULT who has sexual relations with a MINOR is in the wrong. [/quote] I agree that they are in the wrong, but I also think the minor could also in theory be in the wrong. Why else am I morally obligated to confess every mortal sin I have committed if I get a free pass with "Sorry, I'm not quite 100% yet."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 We had a recent case in the area where a high school girl came on to a youngish teacher. After he was compromised she passed around to all her friends the texts etc. and of course her parents found out. Naturally he lost his job, his wife and his home. Nothing much happened to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 And I'm not attacking your position, I'm simply trying to figure this out. If I'm not 100% morally culpable ever than why do I have to go to confession? The answer seems to be to me that it is because I know full well what I am doing and I know that it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1346444477' post='2476857'] Could a teenage boy theoretically "seduce" an older man, even a priest? Sure, it's possible,[color=#FF0000][u] but unlikely in these cases[/u][/color]. If anything, a lot of these cases probably... [/quote] Do you have any knowledge of the cases Fr Groeschel was involved in while working at Trinity? I'm wiling to bet you have absolutely zero knowledge and therein lies the difference:[i] Fr Groeschel had first hand experience[/i]. If he is wrong he is wrong, but base it on fact and not conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1346444498' post='2476858'] or why minors can't enter into legally binding contracts. [/quote] But they could in the past. Back in the day if a young girl got pregnant she go to move out of her parents house, be provided with an apartment, food stamps, welfare etc EVEN if she under 18. Apartments require leases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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