Nfp & Overpopulation

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1346366459' post='2476442']
Regardless of how over or underpopulated we are at present, there is a number of people that the earth will be able to sufficiently sustain. Be it 10 billion 1 trillion or 100 trillion. The earth doesn't have infinite resources. As world population grew exponentially in the last two centuries, if population growth rates continued to grow exponentially over the next few hundred years there might be serious problems.

I wonder if humanity can actually hit overpopulation or if the life cycle of humanity and the earth will naturally sort things out or if the end of time would come before we hit such limitations.
[/quote]

Slappo, then you believe that God was shortsighted in his creation of the world, or mistaken in his command to be fruitful and multiply? I just do not get how anyone who believes in a God so powerful that he created a world and breathed into that world intelligent life could somehow leap to the conclusion that this all powerful God somehow miscalculated His creations, was so shortsighted that He could not foresee His creations killing the planet He made. Why would you limit God in this way ?

ed

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

St paul " how i wish you all to be like me, but as i know this is not so i recommend many times of abstinance." Words to that effect anyhow. NFP with times of chastity is as old as saint pauls letters.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1346361833' post='2476406']
Well, worldwide overpopulation is a myth, first of all. Every person in the world could live in the State of Texas with a house and a yard. Doesn't sound too overpopulated to me. There are places where they cannot provide sufficient food sources for the growing population, which simply means the economy there is not food-focused, and I think practicing natural family planning in a place where if you had another child it would starve would be perfectly fine, but these cases are very hard to come by in a first world country like America. In third world countries this is an often enough occurrence, and so natural family planning would be a good and moral move.
[/quote]

[size=4][color=#000000][font=Verdana, sans-serif]167,672,913.14 approximate total land area in acres divided [/font][/color][color=#000000][font=sans-serif]by 7.037 billion equals everyone getting 0.0238 of an acre.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=sans-serif]doesnt quite work[/font][/color][/size]

Edited September 4, 2012 by Jesus_lol

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1346385923' post='2476576']
What do you all mean by[b] natural [/b]family planning ? Condoms or Abstinance or Cycle ?
[/quote]
They are all forms of contraception. Abstinence and cycle are natural. Condoms and drugs are not.


[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1346384859' post='2476562']
If a couple told me they were practicing NFP because of overpopulation, I would ask them what the real reason is.

If Catholics start doing this, Americans numbers will keep dwindling. We are already not replacing ourselves. We will turn into Europe, where Muslims make up the majority of the large cities, because they are replacing themselves and then some.
[/quote]
Throughout history all empires have risen and fallen. If the Western empire is in decline it is probably the beginning of the end of it But never mind Christ said
[i]That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it.[/i] Christs Church will survive till the end times.
Ice core samples reveal a history of calamities. Sooner or later a mass extinction will occur.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Mark of the Cross

[TheUbiquitous]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1346726565' post='2478132']
[color=#000000][font=Verdana, sans-serif]167,672,913.14 approximate total land area in acres divided [/font][/color][color=#000000][font=sans-serif]by 7.037 billion equals everyone getting 0.0238 of an acre.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=sans-serif]doesnt quite work[/font][/color]
[/quote]

In the original example, folks don't live alone.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1346471119' post='2477027']
Slappo, then you believe that God was shortsighted in his creation of the world, or mistaken in his command to be fruitful and multiply? I just do not get how anyone who believes in a God so powerful that he created a world and breathed into that world intelligent life could somehow leap to the conclusion that this all powerful God somehow miscalculated His creations, was so shortsighted that He could not foresee His creations killing the planet He made. Why would you limit God in this way ?

ed
[/quote]

Ed... this is basic science I'm talking about. At [b]some level of population [/b]the human population would exceed the sustainability of the Earth. Just look at basic mass, not even including resources. Can an infinite number of people live on Earth? Physically there would not be room, as the Earth does not have infinite space. Like I said, whether it's 6 billion or 100 billion trillion, there is a limit to the capacity of the Earth. I don't think this is any short sightedness on God's part. That's just silly. God did not make an earth that has infinite resources or infinite space. If he wanted to do that, he would have.

The question of if humanity will ever reach this population level is one that is entirely different. That's why the OP is speculative in nature.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1346782562' post='2478333']
Ed... this is basic science I'm talking about. At [b]some level of population [/b]the human population would exceed the sustainability of the Earth. Just look at basic mass, not even including resources. Can an infinite number of people live on Earth? Physically there would not be room, as the Earth does not have infinite space. Like I said, whether it's 6 billion or 100 billion trillion, there is a limit to the capacity of the Earth. I don't think this is any short sightedness on God's part. That's just silly. God did not make an earth that has infinite resources or infinite space. If he wanted to do that, he would have.

The question of if humanity will ever reach this population level is one that is entirely different. That's why the OP is speculative in nature.
[/quote]

I understood that it was a speculative post. Yet I trust in God. I believe that when giving His command to be fruitful and multiply he would have taken into consideration the nature of man, would have foreseen our fall, the war and famine, the natural disasters and yes even the abortion and genocides engaged in by his creations. I believe that God knows all and thence His will for us could not be affected by such lowly creatures as those He created to populate the earth. I also believe that those who believe they could alter God's plan by overpopulation are engaged in self flattery, the thought that somehow they, although they may realize it, believe that their actions could alter God's creation, which of course was designed by the ultimate infallible entity.

ed

[Jesus_lol]

Its a pretty simple and uncontestable statement to say that the earth cannot support an unlimited amount of people. Eventually, it would be too much, and long before that point there would be mass starvation and death.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1347243351' post='2480846']
Its a pretty simple and uncontestable statement to say that the earth cannot support an unlimited amount of people. Eventually, it would be too much, and long before that point there would be mass starvation and death.
[/quote]

The mass starvation and death might be the natural way for the human population to then decrease back to sustainable levels though. In that sense we would have overpopulation, but not overpopulation to the point of extinction. I think the rational minds God has given us would prevent humanity from self exctinction from something as simple as starvation or overpopulation. Now... nuclear warfare, mass genocide, and radiation poisoning might do it... but not overpopulation.



Since we really don't know what the actual end of times will look like, I think it's quite possible that it will come with the extinction of humanity or the destruction of the earth or the sun going supernova or something. Yes God is all knowing. That means he knows how the end of the world will come about, but that doesn't mean he didn't necessarily design it to come about in some sort of natural method.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1347387272' post='2481364']
The mass starvation and death might be the natural way for the human population to then decrease back to sustainable levels though. In that sense we would have overpopulation, but not overpopulation to the point of extinction. I think the rational minds God has given us would prevent humanity from self exctinction from something as simple as starvation or overpopulation. Now... nuclear warfare, mass genocide, and radiation poisoning might do it... but not overpopulation.
[/quote]
Overpopulation results in those things! famine - war - nuclear holocaust. So indirectly overpopulation could result in an extinction event by way of nuclear or irreparable pollution destruction of the eco sphere. Of course nuclear extinction could occur without overpopulation.



[quote]Since we really don't know what the actual end of times will look like, I think it's quite possible that it will come with the extinction of humanity or the destruction of the earth or the sun going supernova or something. Yes God is all knowing. [/quote]
Moot point, but I think the physics are that our star is not large enough to go supernova. It's destiny is a red giant where it will swallow up the inner planets but that's not predicted to happen for some considerable time. Our main threats are meteors, geo thermal events, changes in weather (ice cores show we are in a rare Goldilocks period) and mankind (nuclear, pollution and biological (zombies LOL)

[quote]That means he knows how the end of the world will come about, but that doesn't mean he didn't necessarily design it to come about in some sort of natural method.[/quote]
God created science and some of us believe that he created through his science which is his nature and so the end times most probably will be via a natural and inevitable event. We're pretty much sitting ducks in a shooting gallery. Somewhere out there amongst the thousands of asteroids is one with our name on it. What will happen to America, when not if Yellowstone blows it's top?

Sorry I seem to be in a rambling mood this morning.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Mark of the Cross

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1346366459' post='2476442']
Regardless of how over or underpopulated we are at present, there is a number of people that the earth will be able to sufficiently sustain. Be it 10 billion 1 trillion or 100 trillion. The earth doesn't have infinite resources. As world population grew exponentially in the last two centuries, if population growth rates continued to grow exponentially over the next few hundred years there might be serious problems.

I wonder if humanity can actually hit overpopulation or if the life cycle of humanity and the earth will naturally sort things out or if the end of time would come before we hit such limitations.
[/quote]

Population isn't the issue. It's productivity. We will find ways to make our agriculture more productive, extend our natural resources, and find new fuel sources. When the demand shows up, the supply will be provided.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1347422709' post='2481567']
Population isn't the issue. It's productivity. We will find ways to make our agriculture more productive, extend our natural resources, and find new fuel sources. When the demand shows up, the supply will be provided.
[/quote]

and you somehow think this process wont have an upper limit?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1347498968' post='2481845']
and you somehow think this process wont have an upper limit?
[/quote]

Aw man, L_D was telling me the trippiest stuff about the potential of human development if we were able to properly utilize... I think it was thorium, as an energy source.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1347498968' post='2481845']
and you somehow think this process wont have an upper limit?
[/quote]

Why would it? As we encounter new problems, we will find new solutions.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1347500802' post='2481865']
Aw man, L_D was telling me the trippiest stuff about the potential of human development if we were able to properly utilize... I think it was thorium, as an energy source.
[/quote]
Vulcans are incredibly knowledgeable and insightful.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' timestamp='1347501467' post='2481873']
Why would it? As we encounter new problems, we will find new solutions.
[/quote]
And if we don't, nature will.