Clown Mass (yes, It's Real But At Least The Eucharist Was Present)

[mortify]

Years ago there was a full length youtube video of a clown mass although it seems to have dissapeared. I was only able to find it as a shortened clip in a much larger commentary by a youtuber. I provide the video and recommend skipping his commentary and some other clips he posted and start watching at [color=#FF0000][b]2:28[/b][/color]. At [color=#FF0000][b]3:45[/b][/color] you will hear a brave soul yelling that this is a sacrilege. Notice the calm and "rational" manner that this monstrosity is being presented as (very disturbing!)

Lastly, I point to this video as a testament against the [i]"But the Eucharist is present, so everything is ok"[/i] mentality. Form [i]does[/i] matter, and it should be a reflection of What is present and what we believe. If that form no longer reflects that, then maybe we no longer really believe. As the old maxim goes, the law of prayer is the law of belief, as we pray so be believe and vice versa.

Anyway, please don't enjoy this:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wedpLBTKd84[/media]

[beatitude]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is actually an Episcopalian service. I've seen photos from it elsewhere, and someone commented that it was Episcopal on the other thread.

(I'm hoping so, as it would be a relief to know that the Precious Blood [i]isn't[/i] actually present in that glass salad bowl...)

[Papist]

That mass is Trinity Episcopal Church in NYC.

Trinity Church[Episcopal] in Myrtle Beach, SC out did them with the Pirate Mass.

[img]http://trinitypastor.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/pirate-mass.jpg?w=614[/img]

[Lisa]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1345645487' post='2471941']
That mass is Trinity Episcopal Church in NYC.

Trinity Church[Episcopal] in Myrtle Beach, SC out did them with the Pirate Mass.

[img]http://trinitypastor.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/pirate-mass.jpg?w=614[/img]
[/quote]

I hope you're joking, because that image is clearly photoshopped, and quite badly at that. If you are, *[i]backs away to learn social skills[/i]*

[EmilyAnn]

So the fabled "clown Mass" is actually Episcopalian. Interesting.

[Papist]

[quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1345645794' post='2471943']
I hope you're joking, because that image is clearly photoshopped, and quite badly at that. If you are, *backs away to learn social skills*

[/quote]
This is not from the actual mass. Don't know if pics were taken at the mass. This photo is "an artist's rendering of what Pirate Mass might look like".

“Pirate Mass,” Sturdy says with a confident smile. ”Everyone knows of the outrageous success the Episcopal Church has enjoyed through things like the “Clown Mass” ([url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ6KWt49wIA"]click here to see the clown mass[/url]). The Episcopal Church has shown that what seekers, especially young people really crave is an experience of God in the Clown Mass. But times are a changin’. Trinity prides itself on being on the cutting edge of outreach and evangelism and to be quite frank, I think Clown Mass has seen its day. The next big thing will be the Pirate Mass.”

I have not read the comments before and I just re-read the post. I am thinking perhaps this is a satire poking fun at the clown mass church. If it is serious, YIKES!

[url="http://trinitypastor.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/trinity-church-to-conduct-special-pirate-mass/"]http://trinitypastor.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/trinity-church-to-conduct-special-pirate-mass/[/url]

[Papist]

Footnote: Me social skills no learn from you.

[cmotherofpirl]

There actually was a clown mass: [url="http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A199rcClownArchbishop.htm"]http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A199rcClownArchbishop.htm[/url], there have also been masses for circus performers, and masses for people in costume for Halloween. The most famous is the Trinity Episcopal service that has been bandied about for years as catholic. The link has been removed form youtube. None of that, even though it infuriates most people, invalidates those Masses..

[missionseeker]

Hmmm. Well. No one actually said "if the Eucharist is present it all ok." I'm pretty sure the only thing that was said was that if the eucharist is present then the Mass is indeed holy. Why? Well if we believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist, then how would it not be Holy?? We can't say " well Christ is more holy in this Eucharist because it's licit than He is in this one because it's illicit. ". No. Christ is holy. Christ is present in Eucharist Mass. Hence, any valid (remebering that a Mass can be completely illicit and remain valid) Mass at which the Christ is present in the Eucharist is objectively holy by virtue of His presence.

Honestly I think it is a complete tragedy to watch/participate in an illicit Mass. like I said, it reminds of Christ at Calvary where He, in His infinite mercy, surrendered Himself to be tortured and mocked. I see no difference, really. He entrusted us with His Mass and His presence and we have abused it.

Edited August 22, 2012 by missionseeker

[BG45]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1345643928' post='2471936']
Lastly, I point to this video as a testament against the [i]"But the Eucharist is present, so everything is ok"[/i] mentality.
[/quote]

I'm happy to have never seen this mentality on Phatmass. As Missionseeker said, the Mass is Holy if Christ is present. The Mass can be licit or illicit in nature, but Christ's presence makes it Holy.

[mortify]

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1345646023' post='2471946']
So the fabled "clown Mass" is actually Episcopalian. Interesting.
[/quote]

Unfortunately it's no myth.

The clip mentioned in the OP is in fact a Roman Catholic Church (at least canonically speaking.) Christ the King Church, Pleasant Hill CA, Diocese of Oakland, and Fr Brian Joyce was presiding.

Sorry folks... but no myth! Wish it was though...

[mortify]

Oh, and here is the actual homily said for the "Clown Mass"

[url="http://www.ctkph.org/homilies/homilies2002/homily090102.htm"]http://www.ctkph.org/homilies/homilies2002/homily090102.htm[/url]


[quote]
This morning, our 9:15 a.m. Mass was hosted by our Youth Ministry and by our Clown Ministry that goes to convalescent homes and hospitals throughout the year.

Historically, the most important name among professional clowns is "Joseph Grimaldi." Early in the nineteenth century, he set the standard and pattern for all circus clowns that would follow for the next one hundred fifty years. On one occasion, the circus was visiting a small English town, and the local doctor came up with a novel remedy. A patient came to him with severe depression. In fact, the doctor later reported that the pain and the despair was so deep that the man could barely hold up his head and kept looking down the whole time. The doctor decided on a different kind of prescription. He said to the man, "The circus is in town. I want you to go tonight, but what I want you to do is watch Grimaldi. I went last night and his performance was terrific. He will make you laugh. He will make you smile. He will lift your spirits. You go tonight, but just keep watching Grimaldi." The man painfully, and slowly raised his head and said, "But, Doctor, I'm Grimaldi."

Now, that true story connects, with me, with today's gospel where Jesus says, 'Take up your cross," because Christians believe and they pray and they sing "It's a cross of joy. It's a cross of resurrection. It's a cross of hope. It's a cross of victory." Yet, every once in awhile, we painfully and slowly raise our heads and admit, "....But.... it's.... still.... a.... cross!"

Usually, when we think about crosses, we are thinking about our own personal hardships, our upsets, our difficulties. We are thinking about our headaches and our heartaches and our disappointments. And our response is to bear with our cross, to put up with our cross. But, I don't think that is what Jesus is talking about. Jesus uses a different kind of language, much more active than that. Jesus says, "Take up your cross." He doesn't say, "Put up with it." He says, "Take it up." And, I think that language suggests that what Jesus is talking about is not passive suffering of our own difficulties, but taking responsibility and responding to the hurt and pain we see in the world around us, to taking up the cross of our society and the cross of our planet.

Take Labor Day and its issues: security of working people, concern for the unemployed, adequate health care, welfare reform, fair treatment of immigrants (You know, people like my parents and your grandparents), secure retirement, fair wages. (I suppose even for baseball players!) For most of the last century, the biggest single concrete response to those crosses, those needs, was the union movement. In fact, the union movement gave us Labor Day, that we celebrate tomorrow. However, both because of the many victories of unions and some abuses, because of prosperity and different needs, people disagree today on the exact place of unions. But the issues of security and justice remain the cross that we must all be willing to pick up when we see it.

Another cross is the safety and security of our whole planet. Now this is very hard to get ahold of. You know, it's hard to even notice it. It can be hard for us to watch global issues. For example, you turn on TV and you get a glimpse of maybe even millions of children starving on another continent. Or you get a glimpse of innocent victims crippled by land mines and instruments of war. But just a glimpse, because mainly we've got large commercials for Burger King and for Celebrex and for Prozak, shielding us from thinking about that. It's hard to remember it.

Two weeks ago, Sister Carol Zihn was here from the United Nations, and she gave us some striking reminders. For example, she told us that in the continent of Africa, four out of five people, four out of five, have no access to drinkable water. She told us, and this is striking (It almost makes you smile!), two out of three people on our planet have never used a telephone. I think that means all the cell phones are in our automobiles, our restaurants, our theatres, and our churches. I think that's what that means. But it is very hard to get our minds around six billion people, the six billion brothers and sisters of ours on this planet.

She made it a little easier to picture by taking a compressed view. What if all those six billion people were represented today, and their lives today, by a single village of one hundred people? That gave us a good clear instant photo. She said that, of those hundred people, seventy cannot read or write. Of those hundred people, eighty are undernourished, undereducated, underhoused, and underfed. Of those one hundred people, one (one!) would have a college degree. And 87% of all the wealth of our planet would be possessed by six people in that village, and all six would be United States citizens. And that is not to mention our planet's creatures, its resources and its life forms. One thing she said was very striking to me, and that was, "If human life disappeared tomorrow, if the human race disappeared tomorrow, every other species on the planet would benefit eightfold, except for our house plants and our pets. They've been domesticated and it would take them a couple of generations, but they would come back and they would be OK. What does this mean for us to take up that cross?

Here's where we might possibly begin. Number one, is just to notice. It's much easier to look away. It's much easier to ignore and remain ignorant of hurt that goes on around us. So, number one is to be a people who notice, who are willing to get the facts about hurt in our world.

Number two is to let that knowledge, what we notice, make some change in our thinking and some change in our conversation.

And number three is, finally, to bring to one another a steadfast hope, because we believe in the victory of the cross. We believe in resurrection over death. Remember the saying I shared with you a couple of weeks ago, "There is no pit so deep that God is not deeper still.... There is no pit so deep that God is not deeper still." So, we want to be a people who don't look away, but also who don't give up. We may remain a people of compassion and of hope, who steadfastly refuse to settle for desperate solutions or the violence of despair.

Joseph Grimaldi died in 1837. Charles Dickens wrote his biography. His clown makeup, which was white face, bright red lips and red triangles around the eyes, and his clown routine became the standard for clowns all around the world for over a hundred years. And the name he used for his clown, "Joey," to this day is the circus nickname for clowns. They are called the "Joeys." Making a pun of his depression and of his own name, Grimaldi once said, "I'm Grim all day, but at night I'm Joey."

But Christians are not called to be grim, even in the face of tragedy and painful situations. But we are called to be a people who notice and lift up the cross of hurt whenever we can. But, because we know Christ has triumphed over death and has the ultimate victory, and because we know Jesus shows us a God Who companions us no matter what is going on, we do it with joyful confidence and with steadfast hope.

Let us give thanks to the Lord Who is so good. Amen.
[/quote]

[img]http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/htimages2/A015_ClownMassA.jpg[/img]

[mortify]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1345647582' post='2471960']
Hmmm. Well. No one actually said "if the Eucharist is present it all ok." I'm pretty sure the only thing that was said was that if the eucharist is present then the Mass is indeed holy. Why? Well if we believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist, then how would it not be Holy?? We can't say " well Christ is more holy in this Eucharist because it's licit than He is in this one because it's illicit. ". No. Christ is holy. Christ is present in Eucharist Mass. Hence, any valid (remebering that a Mass can be completely illicit and remain valid) Mass at which the Christ is present in the Eucharist is objectively holy by virtue of His presence.
[/quote]

Yes, I agree with you, but then again it's not about the holiness of the Mass or whether Christ is present. I personally have reached many stumbling blocks in trying to understand and discuss [i]liturgical changes [/i]because people always appeal to the "at least the Eucharist is present" card. I personally believe that externals and form do matter.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1345686499' post='2472304']
Unfortunately it's no myth.

The clip mentioned in the OP is in fact a Roman Catholic Church (at least canonically speaking.) Christ the King Church, Pleasant Hill CA, Diocese of Oakland, and Fr Brian Joyce was presiding.

Sorry folks... but no myth! Wish it was though...
[/quote]
However the video that circulated for years claiming to be a clown mass was in fact an Episcopal service

[missionseeker]

1) while that's not the best I've ever read, I don't see any heresy in it. If I missed please point it out as I didn't analyze every sentence or anything.


2). What is your point/problem. You say that you have problems with people bringing up that the Eucharist is present. If I recall you were the first to mention clown masses. People pointed out that one mass was not holier than another. But no one denied problems in that thread. Yet you have created a thread that seems to be mocking anyone who said that. AND causing others to have to (for lack of a better word) defend clown Masses which is something that I am sure NO ONE here wants to do. Which may be why you have had no success in dialogue. That takes a willingness on your part as well which I do not see you displaying.


Many phatmassers would jump at the chance to have a thoughtful and intelligent discussion about changes in the liturgy. Finger pointing and mockery do not facilitate that at all.