Pray The Holy Spirit Upon Cardinal Dolan.

[Ed Normile]

The Cardinal Dolan invite of Obama to the Al Smith dinner has, rightly so, caused much concern and debate among catholic faithful.

It breaks down into several camps, each with their own worries/viewpoints.
1. Those that think this will bring another scandal to the Church.
2. Those that feel the event will be used by Obama campaign as a photo-op or tool to sway catholic voters into the thought the church is either ok with Obama's policies of death and religious restrictions or somehow backs Obama re-election efforts.
3. Those that feel this will be another tool for the media to belittle the church and her pro-life viewpoint asserting that a Cardinal is on Obama's team.

I feel that Cardinal Dolans explanation that Jesus did not shun sinners was either naive or lame at best. Jesus did keep company and eat with sinners but at such times he always took the opportunity to correct them in their error by either telling them to repent or offering a parable to illustrate their error. Perhaps this is Cardinal Dolans plan. Lets all pray that the Holy Spirit guides Cardinal Dolan in his exchange with Obama. As we know the Holy Spirit could be acting through the Cardinal to effect a change or conversion in our President. I sincerely hope this is the case! Lets also pray that this is not used by the media as a tool to sway the spiritually weak to vote for this President who is the most active advocate of the culture of death to ever hold the office. I hope Obama can be changed, yet I still recall him calling the U.S.S.C.B. to a meeting where they were told how that catholic church should be more open to guidance of catholics like Nancy Pelosi.

Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful and enkindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created. And you shall renew the face of the earth.


[font="Georgia"][size="2"][color="#006AAE"]Spirit of wisdom and understanding, enlighten our minds to perceive the mysteries of the universe in relation to eternity. [/color][/size][/font]
[font="Georgia"][size="2"][color="#006AAE"]Spirit of right judgment and courage, guide us and make us firm in our baptismal decision to follow Jesus' way of love. [/color][/size][/font]
[font="Georgia"][size="2"][color="#006AAE"]Spirit of knowledge and reverence, help us to see the lasting value of justice and mercy in our everyday dealings with one another. [/color][/size][/font]
[font="Georgia"][size="2"][color="#006AAE"]May we respect life as we work to solve problems of family and nation, economy and ecology. [/color][/size][/font]
[font="Georgia"][size="2"][color="#006AAE"]Spirit of God, spark our faith, hope and love into new action each day.
Fill our lives with wonder and awe in your presence which penetrates all creation.
Amen.[/color][/size][/font]

ed

[MissyP89]

Now more than ever, I think we need to stand behind our shepherds and trust their judgment. Cardinal Dolan is not a stupid man by any means. The last thing the Church needs is to wonder about and squabble over his decision.

However, I do agree we need to pray for him and all clergy.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1345612490' post='2471819']
Now more than ever, I think we need to stand behind our shepherds and trust their judgment. Cardinal Dolan is not a stupid man by any means. The last thing the Church needs is to wonder about and squabble over his decision.

However, I do agree we need to pray for him and all clergy.
[/quote]

I never implied that Cardinal Dolan was a stupid man, although I think his explanation was naive at best. The church, as in the faithful that embodies the church, has every right to question a decision such as this due to the implications such a decision carries. Cardinals in the past have made ill informed or even outright horrible decisions, take the recent abuse scandal and how it was handled, this is why the faithful should be both prudent and prayerful of all decisions made by the church hierarchy, afterall they are just men prone to errors in judgement as any man is.

ed

[Groo the Wanderer]

I still think he drew the fuhrer in so that His Eminence can lay a smackdown on him with an anathema

I still think he drew the fuhrer in so that His Eminence can lay a smackdown on him with an anathema

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1345612175' post='2471813']
I feel that Cardinal Dolans explanation that Jesus did not shun sinners was either naive or lame at best.
[/quote]

I don't understand why you feel this way. Do you lack trust in him because of his previous actions or decisions? What type of explanation would satisfy you? This is not an attack, I just want to understand your point of view.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Adrestia

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1345691433' post='2472375']
I don't understand why you feel this way. Do you lack trust in him because of his previous actions or decisions? What type of explanation would satisfy you? This is not an attack, I just want to understand your point of view.
[/quote]

Why would you ask if I lack trust in him? I do not trust the media, unless Cardinal Dolan makes a strong pro-life point that is publicly noticed this could play to many catholics as an acceptance of Obama's candidacy. In the biased media chances are even if Cardinal Dolan makes a strong and eloquent statement there is no guarantee that the press will even acknowledge it, let alone publish it. I do think the press will use any photo-op in an attempt to further Obama's political chances with catholic voters.

My point saying his decision was either lame or naive is the fact the press is on the Obama team, they control what is published or broadcast. Cardinal Dolan saying Jesus did not shun sinners was hardly mentioned in the media outside catholic venues, do you really think that if the Cardinal makes a statement that it will either be mentioned or lauded if they feel it could hurt the Obama campaign amongst catholic voters.

That is why I ask all to pray for the Holy Spirit to bring wisdom and truth and conversion to all involved. All I ask is for your prayers, I do not care to argue with you. I hope this helps illuminate you on my point of view, although I thought it was certainly written clearly enough already.

ed

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1345694553' post='2472400']
Why would you ask if I lack trust in him? I do not trust the media, unless Cardinal Dolan makes a strong pro-life point that is publicly noticed this could play to many catholics as an acceptance of Obama's candidacy. In the biased media chances are even if Cardinal Dolan makes a strong and eloquent statement there is no guarantee that the press will even acknowledge it, let alone publish it. I do think the press will use any photo-op in an attempt to further Obama's political chances with catholic voters.

My point saying his decision was either lame or naive is the fact the press is on the Obama team, they control what is published or broadcast. Cardinal Dolan saying Jesus did not shun sinners was hardly mentioned in the media outside catholic venues, do you really think that if the Cardinal makes a statement that it will either be mentioned or lauded if they feel it could hurt the Obama campaign amongst catholic voters.

That is why I ask all to pray for the Holy Spirit to bring wisdom and truth and conversion to all involved. All I ask is for your prayers, I do not care to argue with you. I hope this helps illuminate you on my point of view, although I thought it was certainly written clearly enough already.

ed
[/quote]

I'm slow, it was not clear to me. That's why I asked. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1345695127' post='2472412']
I'm slow, it was not clear to me. That's why I asked. Thank you for taking the time to explain.
[/quote]

No, you are not slow. I am sorry to have made you say this. I am an old irishman, impatient, unwise and more often that not imprudent in my choice of words. I am sure that much of what I write can be unclear to most people, so please do not say you are slow to an old nut who should be more compassionate. You show great love in defending the Cardinal, a fact that brings me joy, and afterall as catholics and christians we all are blessed with joy and should share it, you have done a far better job of fulfilling this than I, Thank you.

ed

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1345695743' post='2472418']
No, you are not slow. I am sorry to have made you say this. I am an old irishman, impatient, unwise and more often that not imprudent in my choice of words. I am sure that much of what I write can be unclear to most people, so please do not say you are slow to an old nut who should be more compassionate. You show great love in defending the Cardinal, a fact that brings me joy, and afterall as catholics and christians we all are blessed with joy and should share it, you have done a far better job of fulfilling this than I, Thank you.

ed
[/quote]

I appreciate the sentiment, but there's really no need to apologize. I am slow at some things, and I'm good at other things. One of the great things about this community is that we have an opportunity to learn from each other and see things from different points of view.

After reading your explanation, I do see how your first post illustrated those points. I think the part that confused me was where you said "I feel that Cardinal Dolans explanation that Jesus did not shun sinners was either naive or lame at best." The words "naive" & "lame" make me think "untrustworthy." Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you meant that his explanation was not good enough to stop the biased media from misrepresenting Obama's presence.

[XIX]

We're allowed to but we're still the laity and he's still a Cardinal. He's going to get a lot more right than we will. Honestly, I think His Eminence knows what he is doing.

We'll be fine.