The Catholic Church In America: Earthly Concerns

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1345495905' post='2470765']
Every parish has a finance council, usually populated by people who own their own businesses or work in finance for huge corporations. Every diocese also has professional financial and human resource staff working for them. While the buck stops with the clergy, if they are smart, they will listen to their advisers. I have seen what happens when they don't.
[/quote]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Apparently we need a better system.

[Nihil Obstat]

Related question: Are individual churches treated, from an accounting/tax/legal standpoint as distinct entities, or are they treated more like various departments under a single corporation: the diocese?

Edited August 20, 2012 by Nihil Obstat

[Brother Adam]

The danger is, actually, that they are set up as a corporation sole owned by the bishop. That is why he can freely come in, close a church, and sell its assets.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1345471012' post='2470569']
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][background=rgb(240, 240, 240)]It is openness and the Rule of Law, not churchly sanctimony, that may yet restore faith in the Catholic Church.[/background][/font][/color]
[/quote]

That is what got it into trouble in the first place in the 70s and 80s. The Church followed the pop psychology and what everyone thought was right then. The charter for protecting God's children is light years beyond any other private or public institution. Holiness is exactly what will restore faith in the Catholic Church.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1345496775' post='2470782']
The danger is, actually, that they are set up as a corporation sole owned by the bishop. That is why he can freely come in, close a church, and sell its assets.
[/quote]

Interesting. So what do you think; would we have better success if individual parishes were, for accounting and financial purposes more autonomous? Or would that just make things worse?
Honestly, I'm thinking that would be worse still. We'd get far more situations of 'rogue parishes', and the diocese would be less able to respond appropriately.

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1345496962' post='2470787']
Holiness is exactly what will restore faith in the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

And since the law of prayer is the law of belief, save the liturgy, save the Church, save the world.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1345494402' post='2470756']
um...I was talking to mortify. Not sure why you quoted me...especially because I "propped" your post....
[/quote]Because I didn't read the entire article , was making the wrong point, and thought you were pointing that out to me.

[4588686]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1345496962' post='2470787']
That is what got it into trouble in the first place in the 70s and 80s. The Church followed the pop psychology and what everyone thought was right then. The charter for protecting God's children is light years beyond any other private or public institution. Holiness is exactly what will restore faith in the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

I'd love a link to the pop-psychologists who told Bishops that they needed to not inform the authorities that their Priests were raping children and then shipping those same Priests to other Parishes with no warning that, you know, some kids might get raped.

[Brother Adam]

You want me to link to something I did not say. Nice try though.

[r2Dtoo]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1345496962' post='2470787']
That is what got it into trouble in the first place in the 70s and 80s. The Church followed the pop psychology and what everyone thought was right then. The charter for protecting God's children is light years beyond any other private or public institution. Holiness is exactly what will restore faith in the Catholic Church.
[/quote]
Notice how the quote said "Rule of [b]Law[/b]", not "Rule of pop psychologists". The Catholic Church violated the law on the books in the 1970s by failing to report pedophile priests to the authorities. The Church, as it seems to me, has learned it's lesson to not follow these morons, but if the Church is not to follow pop psychologists then what rules should they follow? Maybe...the Law???

[Anomaly]

[quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1345508038' post='2470934']

Notice how the quote said "Rule of [b]Law[/b]", not "Rule of pop psychologists". The Catholic Church violated the law on the books in the 1970s by failing to report pedophile priests to the authorities. The Church, as it seems to me, has learned it's lesson to not follow these morons, but if the Church is not to follow pop psychologists then what rules should they follow? Maybe...the Law???
[/quote]Before the Church follows the rule of law, it should maybe attempt to follow basic morality to protect the innocent children.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1345508866' post='2470951']
Before the Church follows the rule of law, it should maybe attempt to follow basic morality to protect the innocent children.
[/quote]

You do realize that the Catholic Church today is one of the leading churches for child safety? Obviously we had huge problems, just look at the news, but at present we have some of the most protective rules in place regarding keeping children safe.

[r2Dtoo]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1345510065' post='2470975']
You do realize that the Catholic Church today is one of the leading churches for child safety? Obviously we had huge problems, just look at the news, but at present we have some of the most protective rules in place regarding keeping children safe.
[/quote]
Some of which is to the dismay of Catholics. Remember that topic on mandatory finger printing for choir directors?

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1345508866' post='2470951']
Before the Church follows the rule of law, it should maybe attempt to follow basic morality to protect the innocent children.
[/quote]
Of course. But I was explaining exactly what "rule of law" actually meant which apparently was lost on some people here.

Edited August 21, 2012 by r2Dtoo

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1345510065' post='2470975']


You do realize that the Catholic Church today is one of the leading churches for child safety? Obviously we had huge problems, just look at the news, but at present we have some of the most protective rules in place regarding keeping children safe.
[/quote]You do realize I never said the Church was completely immoral. Just commenting on the obvious decisions of certain people who were or are in authority.

[Slappo]

[quote name='r2Dtoo' timestamp='1345510235' post='2470977']
Some of which is to the dismay of Catholics. Remember that topic on mandatory finger printing for choir directors?
[/quote]

Yes. Some of the rules we have are now so strict that it makes it difficult for people to volunteer or for parish staff to perform their basic job duties. Things like mandatory finger printing, background checks, and training classes are a huge deterrent to volunteer ministry. There is being safe and there is being paranoid, and we're still working on finding a balance. Even if we cut the security measures we have in place in half, we'd still be more secure than probably 95% of the other churches though...

[Slappo]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1345510581' post='2470980']
You do realize I never said the Church was completely immoral. Just commenting on the obvious decisions of certain people who were or are in authority.
[/quote]

Not only did we "attempt to follow basic morality to protect the innocent children," like you said we should do, but we went above and beyond that. Your statement infers that the Catholic Church is still a dangerous place for children and does not attempt to follow basic morality.