Papist Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 If someone hurt you and then later apologized, you would forgive him. And probably forgive him even after the 2nd and 3rd time he hurt you. But after 10, 15, etc. times you'd be less likely to forgive b/c you would believe he has no intention of stopping. How many of us repeat the same sin in confession? I kind of wonder if at some point my priest is going to be less likely to give me absolution for the sin I confess at every confession. This is something to reflect on while preparing for receiving absolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egidio Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 What is necessary is at least attrition (otherwise known as imperfect contrition, i.e. sorrow, brought about by the fear of going to hell). If contrition, perfect or imperfect is there, absolution is possible...HOWEVER...if the priest thinks that a firm purpose of amendment is lacking, and therefore the contrition is possibly doubtful, AND he thinks it will be beneficial to the penitent, he may withhold absolution. This is normally only done however, in cases where the penitent seems to be stuck in what moral theologians call "recidivism", that is, a recurring or habitual sin which the penitent does not appear to be trying to overcome. The only other time a confessor [u]must[/u] withhold absolution is if the person is blatantly unrepentant (it happens, but very rarely). It is a little complicated, and must be taken case by case. St Alphonsus, has a lot to say about it, and he constantly preaches mercy on the part of the confessor, unless withholding absolution would be beneficial to the soul of the penitent. In today's world where we are surrounded by so much temptation and occasion to sin, that the confessor is somewhat obliged to be 'super-merciful', however as scripture says, where sin abounds grace abounds all the more!! Of course, there is also the case of simple human weakness and personal faults, of which a regular confessor would have some understanding of the soul entrusted to him, and take that all into consideration. One last thought, Padre Pio once replied to a penitent who asked why she continually was confessing the same sins (even though they were venial), that the reason we don't break out of these sins is simply because we do not love God enough! Something for us all to contemplate. AVE MARIA!! One extra last thought, God NEVER gets tired of excepting our apology and forgiving us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 I understand how it works. This is more about the post-Confession experience. We can leave the confessional flying on cloud nine b/c we just received absolution. What can get lost in the mix is the following through of go and sin no more. If I need to have the intent not to commit the sin again, I need to do so. After my next confession, I plan to retreat into some solitude for awhile(as long as my kids will allow) and meditate on living life free from such sins. Of course, I will fail, but with God's grace the frequency will get less and less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Well, my best advice to you is to have hope that you will not fail. When you leave confession believing you will fail again, then you will. Back on August 1 I went to confession, confessed my favorite sin, and decided that I would not fail. It's been a titanic struggle, and I've needed huge amounts of prayer and outside help, but thus far I haven't failed yet. I'm not saying we have to be unrealistic. Quitting a sinful habit is extremely hard, and in my case I am still afraid that I may yet fall. But the human mind is powerful, and if we tell ourselves that we will eventually fail then we only increase our chances of failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1345295510' post='2469659'] If someone hurt you and then later apologized, you would forgive him. And probably forgive him even after the 2nd and 3rd time he hurt you. But after 10, 15, etc. times you'd be less likely to forgive b/c you would believe he has no intention of stopping. How many of us repeat the same sin in confession? I kind of wonder if at some point my priest is going to be less likely to give me absolution for the sin I confess at every confession. This is something to reflect on while preparing for receiving absolution. [/quote] Some of the earliest Patristic Fathers, including if I'm not mistaken Tertullian (though I may be thinking about someone else about that), held a very strict view of mortal sin, speculating that one could only be forgiven of mortal sin once in his lifetime. Basically, baptism was the first chance, confession was the second, and no more. (Of course we know now that this was not correct, and in any case there was no Patristic consensus on this matter.) If anyone's interested I can track down my sources on that and give some exact quotes and names. Edited August 18, 2012 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 [quote name='arfink' timestamp='1345305037' post='2469720'] Well, my best advice to you is to have hope that you will not fail. When you leave confession believing you will fail again, then you will. Back on August 1 I went to confession, confessed my favorite sin, and decided that I would not fail. It's been a titanic struggle, and I've needed huge amounts of prayer and outside help, but thus far I haven't failed yet. I'm not saying we have to be unrealistic. Quitting a sinful habit is extremely hard, and in my case I am still afraid that I may yet fall. But the human mind is powerful, and if we tell ourselves that we will eventually fail then we only increase our chances of failing. [/quote] This is the truth. It becomes a minute to minute decision of "I WILL NOT FALL." But the minute you tell yourself it will happen again, you allow weakness to worm its way back into your life. Every day is brand new. And all we can do is take it one day at a time, trusting in God's grace and knowing He's right behind us if we stumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I know this is transmundane lane, but just remember the wisdom of Yoda: Do or do not. There is no try. It's the same with sin. If we only "try" then we will never be truly victorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 [quote name='arfink' timestamp='1345305037' post='2469720'] Well, my best advice to you is to have hope that you will not fail. When you leave confession believing you will fail again, then you will. Back on August 1 I went to confession, confessed my favorite sin, and decided that I would not fail. It's been a titanic struggle, and I've needed huge amounts of prayer and outside help, but thus far I haven't failed yet. I'm not saying we have to be unrealistic. Quitting a sinful habit is extremely hard, and in my case I am still afraid that I may yet fall. But the human mind is powerful, and if we tell ourselves that we will eventually fail then we only increase our chances of failing. [/quote] I don't leave the confessional believing I will fail. It is just working towards stopping is not on my mind b/c I am high as a kite from receiving absolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1345334223' post='2469876'] Some of the earliest Patristic Fathers, including if I'm not mistaken Tertullian (though I may be thinking about someone else about that), held a very strict view of mortal sin, speculating that one could only be forgiven of mortal sin once in his lifetime. Basically, baptism was the first chance, confession was the second, and no more. (Of course we know now that this was not correct, and in any case there was no Patristic consensus on this matter.) If anyone's interested I can track down my sources on that and give some exact quotes and names. [/quote] I would like to read the Church's refutation of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1345377856' post='2470107'] I would like to read the Church's refutation of that. [/quote] More likely it was simply that the weight of patristic testimony gradually piled up against it, then after a certain point it was accepted implicitly. If I'm not mistaken, there was a fair bit of debate starting in the second century, but mostly in the third century with regards to the nature of confession... things like can all sins be forgiven, can certain sinners be re-admitted to the Church, what penances are appropriate, etc.. Then starting in the fourth century we started to see canonical laws regarding the sacrament, still in a somewhat more primitive form, but clearly still the sacrament. So, TL;DR, I don't think you'll find a specific refutation. At least not one that's contemporary to the thesis itself. I think instead you'll see the weight of evidence over time coming down very much against the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) It's all between you and the priest. I've had a few recurring sins for about 3 years. It is hell shamefull and embaressing but i have to confess them even though i can't figure out whats going on or how to pull out the thorn bush at it's roots. Possibly some un-confessed sin thats there that keeps the more noticeable sins well rooted. I honestly don't know, i don't wan't these re-occering and i do fight them and offer them up when the temptation begins. Whatever the sin it be sin is a mystery in itself and very difficult to figure out sometimes. Edited August 20, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Egidio' timestamp='1345299965' post='2469691'] In today's world where we are surrounded by so much temptation and occasion to sin, that the confessor is somewhat obliged to be 'super-merciful', however as scripture says, where sin abounds grace abounds all the more!! [/quote] Where sin abounds grace abounds more. What is saint paul getting at exactly here? Edited August 20, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egidio Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1345453229' post='2470526'] Where sin abounds grace abounds more. What is saint paul getting at exactly here? [/quote] That God ALWAYS gives sufficient grace to do His Holy Will, and avoid sin. AVE MARIA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1345377774' post='2470106'] I don't leave the confessional believing I will fail. It is just working towards stopping is not on my mind b/c I am high as a kite from receiving absolution. [/quote] Ahh, I can see that. But as you probably know, temptation rarely comes knocking when we're in consolation. The parts to really keep your eyes open for is when things get hard, when you encounter desolation, difficulty, frustration. That's when we get hungry for a cheap thrill or get desperate for a quick fix and fall. It helped me a lot to actually take a good hard look at what leads up to my temptations and to my sins. The "occasion of my sin." This is easiest to do when you're at the end of the day, to reflect back and say "Why did I do that?" It's humiliating and painful, but very enlightening. Sometimes I even write that stuff down, so I know what I'm looking for. I surprised myself by finding out that one of my favorite sins was being triggered by being a) tired, b) discouraged, and c) someone had to tell me "no" about something that day. Those aren't things I can`t just avoid as occasions of sin, but if I know they are contributing factors I at least know to be on my guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdoroTeDevote Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Yes I found that I repeat sins (especially anger) more often when I'm tired also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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