Cardinal Dolan, Obama, And The Al Smith Dinner

[PhuturePriest]

I may have heard wrong, but I think I heard on The World Over he uninvited him. I could have been just as tired as I am now, though, and so only heard what I really wanted to hear.

I think a big part of this is that Bill Clinton was denied an invitation for his pro-choice stances, so why would Obama, a raving pro-choice, pro-infanticide, euthanasia, partial-birth abortion lunatic who has waged war on the Church still be invited? It just doesn't make sense, and it leads the more clueless of the flock into confusion, and even the more informed of the flock. They think "Why would he invite him when he is so against everything the Church stands for?". In my personal opinion we should be sending a message to Barack Obama that the only thing we want out of him is a resignation, and I do not think inviting him to this dinner was a good way of doing that.

[Gabriela]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1345390049' post='2470143']
The difference here is that Kennedy was not engaging in religious persecution as the Obama/Sebellius/Biden machine is now doing.
[/quote]

"But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, DO GOOD TO THOSE WHO HATE YOU, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."

I don't see any qualification after that that says, "...but don't even think about inviting them to dinner". And certainly, honoring an enemy—especially for the sake of fostering understanding and dialogue and civil public debate—seems like a mighty good thing to do.

If you're worried about people misinterpreting that honor, see my previous posts.

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1345390049' post='2470143']
Perhaps Cardinal Dolan will use it as an opportunity to make a comment about religious freedom that would make Obama squirm. Maybe the audience will give him a chilly reception. Maybe the audience will groan or otherwise react negatively to him.
[/quote]

Are you saying this would be a good thing?

[Ed Normile]

The message that Cardinal Dolan could have sent, and should have sent by not meeting with Obama was that he as a catholic priest and faithful does not agree with his policies. Its as if he (Dolan) is stating he agrees with forcing catholic institutions to pay for abortion and contraception as Obamacare has mandated. For being such a "[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif]The strongly pro-life Archbishop and head of the USCCB" as the article states he is sending a very poor message and giving a campaign boost to the most pro-death president ever. This may sway less informed catholic voters to think the church is either ok or actually backing Obama, its a scandal and a heinous error by the Cardinal that he should redress immediately.[/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif]ed[/font][/color]

[Gabriela]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1345441819' post='2470506']
The message that Cardinal Dolan could have sent, and should have sent by not meeting with Obama was that he as a catholic priest and faithful does not agree with his policies. Its as if he (Dolan) is stating he agrees with forcing catholic institutions to pay for abortion and contraception as Obamacare has mandated. For being such a "[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif]The strongly pro-life Archbishop and head of the USCCB" as the article states he is sending a very poor message and giving a campaign boost to the most pro-death president ever. This may sway less informed catholic voters to think the church is either ok or actually backing Obama, its a scandal and a heinous error by the Cardinal that he should redress immediately.[/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif]ed[/font][/color]
[/quote]

I've already addressed this in my previous posts. It is one thing to invite A PERSON (especially the person who, despite our views of his policies, is the supreme leader of our nation right now), and it is quite another to agree with that person's VIEWS. If people confound the two, it is our responsibility to educate them that there is a difference. It is not our responsibility to shun every person we disagree with simply because we fear that ignorant or undereducated or oversimplifying people will misinterpret our actions. It's precisely that shunning that has led to all the divisiveness and intolerance we now live with—divisiveness and intolerance that we, as Catholics, especially suffer under. I personally do not wish to be demonized as a homosexual-hating, woman-hating, equality-hating "Jesus freak". But if I don't wish others to do that to me, then it's hardly fair that I demonize liberals as Catholic-hating, God-hating, morality-hating "Darwin freaks". I also don't care to watch our country dive down the toilet in a giant flush of negative, other-bashing political advertising.

Maybe we should look at this from another angle: If [i]Obama[/i] invited [i]Dolan[/i] to dinner, how would we feel about that? What if Sebellius invited the Holy Father? Wouldn't that look enlightened? Wouldn't Dolan and the Holy Father likely seize the honor as an opportunity to open up a discussion toward mutual understanding and respect? If they would, why can't that invitation go the other way?

[To Jesus Through Mary]

[quote name='curiousing' timestamp='1345442465' post='2470508']
I've already addressed this in my previous posts. It is one thing to invite A PERSON (especially the person who, despite our views of his policies, is the supreme leader of our nation right now), and it is quite another to agree with that person's VIEWS. If people confound the two, it is our responsibility to educate them that there is a difference. It is not our responsibility to shun every person we disagree with simply because we fear that ignorant or undereducated or oversimplifying people will misinterpret our actions. It's precisely that shunning that has led to all the divisiveness and intolerance we now live with—divisiveness and intolerance that we, as Catholics, especially suffer under. I personally do not wish to be demonized as a homosexual-hating, woman-hating, equality-hating "Jesus freak". But if I don't wish others to do that to me, then it's hardly fair that I demonize liberals as Catholic-hating, God-hating, morality-hating "Darwin freaks". I also don't care to watch our country dive down the toilet in a giant flush of negative, other-bashing political advertising.

Maybe we should look at this from another angle: If [i]Obama[/i] invited [i]Dolan[/i] to dinner, how would we feel about that? What if Sebellius invited the Holy Father? Wouldn't that look enlightened? Wouldn't Dolan and the Holy Father likely seize the honor as an opportunity to open up a discussion toward mutual understanding and respect? If they would, why can't that invitation go the other way?
[/quote]

So in light of this reasoning, it would have been appropriate for Pope Pius the XII to have a charity dinner with Hitler as the guest of honor? Or if Pope Pius XII accepted the invitation to dine at an SS dinner.

I think the reason the whole dialogue thing is going over like a led balloon is we've been trying it for the last 100 years and look at where it has ended us. Any Catholic business owner will now $100 per day per employee "tax" to follow their conscience and not provide birth control and abortification coverage. Which will put them out of business. We are forced to pay for the abortions of those on medicaid. It hasn't worked for us so far. Now President Obama has already directly said that he will not negotiate any longer. There cannot be authentic dialogue at this point. No, it is "pose for a picture" kind of dialogue.

We will never appear "enlightened" to the world. Get used to that one. The cross will never make sense to the world. Jesus promised us that. "Haters Gonna Hate"

Edited August 20, 2012 by To Jesus Through Mary

[Ash Wednesday]

Here are some previous speakers:
http://www.alsmithfoundation.org/thedinner.html

P.S. I miss Tim Russert and his white marker board. I wish we could just have him, even if just as a Coachella holograph.

[Gabriela]

[quote name='To Jesus Through Mary' timestamp='1345465790' post='2470543']
So in light of this reasoning, it would have been appropriate for Pope Pius the XII to have a charity dinner with Hitler as the guest of honor? Or if Pope Pius XII accepted the invitation to dine at an SS dinner.
[/quote]

Well, let's see. The Romans killed thousands of Jews and then occupied their country and slowly killed off thousands more. And yet Jesus not only talked to the Centurion, he healed his servant.

So I'm thinkin'... yeah.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='curiousing' timestamp='1345441603' post='2470505']
"But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, DO GOOD TO THOSE WHO HATE YOU, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."

I don't see any qualification after that that says, "...but don't even think about inviting them to dinner". And certainly, honoring an enemy—especially for the sake of fostering understanding and dialogue and civil public debate—seems like a mighty good thing to do.

If you're worried about people misinterpreting that honor, see my previous posts.



Are you saying this would be a good thing?
[/quote]

You're right. They should eat together. The menu can be a bread and water fast for Obama's conversion.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='curiousing' timestamp='1345442465' post='2470508']
I've already addressed this in my previous posts. It is one thing to invite A PERSON (especially the person who, despite our views of his policies, is the supreme leader of our nation right now), and it is quite another to agree with that person's VIEWS. If people confound the two, it is our responsibility to educate them that there is a difference. It is not our responsibility to shun every person we disagree with simply because we fear that ignorant or undereducated or oversimplifying people will misinterpret our actions. It's precisely that shunning that has led to all the divisiveness and intolerance we now live with—divisiveness and intolerance that we, as Catholics, especially suffer under. I personally do not wish to be demonized as a homosexual-hating, woman-hating, equality-hating "Jesus freak". But if I don't wish others to do that to me, then it's hardly fair that I demonize liberals as Catholic-hating, God-hating, morality-hating "Darwin freaks". I also don't care to watch our country dive down the toilet in a giant flush of negative, other-bashing political advertising.

Maybe we should look at this from another angle: If [i]Obama[/i] invited [i]Dolan[/i] to dinner, how would we feel about that? What if Sebellius invited the Holy Father? Wouldn't that look enlightened? Wouldn't Dolan and the Holy Father likely seize the honor as an opportunity to open up a discussion toward mutual understanding and respect? If they would, why can't that invitation go the other way?
[/quote]

Perhaps you missed where Obama did invite Cardinal Dolan as President of the U.S.C.C.B.and other members to Washington to inform them that they should be open to the guidance of " more enlightened catholics " such as Nancy Pelosi ?

ed

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='curiousing' timestamp='1345563900' post='2471258']
Well, let's see. The Romans killed thousands of Jews and then occupied their country and slowly killed off thousands more. And yet Jesus not only talked to the Centurion, he healed his servant.

So I'm thinkin'... yeah.
[/quote]

Was that centurion a righteous man, was he salvable, did that centurion personally order the atrocities or was he complying with his duties as in giving Caeser what is Caeser's. The way I look at it Obama is personally attempting to supercede church doctrine by ordering the church to comply by providing abortions and abortifacients, in effect he is controlling the church which is the embodiment of the Holy Spirit.

ed

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1345615662' post='2471856']
Was that centurion a righteous man, was he salvable, did that centurion personally order the atrocities or was he complying with his duties as in giving Caeser what is Caeser's. The way I look at it Obama is personally attempting to supercede church doctrine by ordering the church to comply by providing abortions and abortifacients, in effect he is controlling the church which is the embodiment of the Holy Spirit.

ed
[/quote]

Not only that, the centurion sought Jesus out and came to Him humbly in faith.

[To Jesus Through Mary]

[quote name='curiousing' timestamp='1345563900' post='2471258']
Well, let's see. The Romans killed thousands of Jews and then occupied their country and slowly killed off thousands more. And yet Jesus not only talked to the Centurion, he healed his servant.

So I'm thinkin'... yeah.
[/quote]

Was the Centurion Herod or Pilate? Did Obama come with a contrite and humble heart? Two entirely different situations. Conversion and healing on one side and politics on the other.

But as I said in my original reply to this, I am going to give Cardinal Dolan the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he is hoping to bring about an authentic from it. Maybe something good will come from it. I just wish it was under the circumstances that the Holy Father took with Pelosi, no photo ops, private, and immediate press release from the Vatican to counter act the press release from the other camp. But many were worried when the Holy Father met with her, maybe this will turn out to be the same time of thing. Please Lord.

[BigJon16]

From the good Cardinal's blog, [i]The Gospel in the Digital Age. [/i]

[url="http://blog.archny.org/index.php/al-smith-dinner/"]http://blog.archny.o...l-smith-dinner/[/url]

[quote]
Last week I was out in Anaheim for the annual Supreme Convention of the [url="http://www.kofc.org/en//index.html"][i]Knights of Columbus[/i][/url]. It was, as usual, a most uplifting and inspirational event.

In his rousing address to the thousands of delegates, representing 1.8 million knights, Dr. Carl Anderson, the Supreme Knight, exhorted us to a renewed sense of [i]faithful citizenship[/i], encouraging us not to be shy about bringing the values of faith to the public square. This duty, he reminded us, came not just from the fact that we are Catholic, but also from the fact that we are loyal Americans.

He then went on to announce a promising initiative of the [i]Knights of Columbus[/i] to foster [i]civility[/i] in politics. Quoting a very recent study, he noted that over 80% of Americans are fed up with the negativity, judgmentalism, name-calling, and mudslinging of our election-year process, and eagerly want a campaign of respect, substance, amity — [i]civility[/i]!

For seven decades, the [url="http://www.alsmithfoundation.org/thedinner.html"][i]Al Smith Dinner [/i][/url]here in New York has been an acclaimed example of such [i]civility[/i] in political life. As you may know, every four years, during the presidential election campaign, the [i]Al Smith Dinner [/i]is the venue of history, as it is the only time outside of the presidential debates that the two presidential candidates come together, at the invitation of the [url="http://www.alsmithfoundation.org/"][i]Al Smith Foundation[/i][/url], through the archbishop of New York, for an evening of positive, upbeat, patriotic, enjoyable [i]civil[/i] discourse. This year, both President Obama and Governor Romney have accepted our invitation. I am grateful to them.

The evening has always had a special meaning, as it is named after Governor Al Smith, the first Catholic nominated, in 1928, as a candidate for president, who was viciously maligned because of his own Catholic faith. Smith was known as [i]The Happy Warrior, [/i]because while he fought fiercely for what he believed was right, he never sought to demonize those who opposed him. And, the dinner named in his honor is truly life-affirming as it raises funds to help support mothers in need and their babies (both born and unborn) of any faith, or none at all.

The [i]Al Smith Dinner[/i] has never been without controversy, since, as Carl Anderson reminded us, politics can inspire disdain and negativity as well as patriotism and [i]civility[/i].

This year is surely no exception: I am receiving stacks of mail protesting the invitation to President Obama (and by the way, even some objecting to the invitation to Governor Romney).

The objections are somewhat heightened this year, since the Catholic community in the United States has rightly expressed vigorous criticism of the President’s support of the abortion license, and his approval of mandates which radically intruded upon Freedom of Religion. We bishops, including yours truly, have been unrelenting in our opposition to these issues, and will continue to be.

So, my correspondents ask, how can you justify inviting the President? Let me try to explain.

For one, an invitation to the [i]Al Smith Dinner [/i]is not an award, or the provision of a platform to expound views at odds with the Church. It is an occasion of conversation; it is personal, not partisan.

Two, the purpose of the[i] Al Smith Dinner[/i] is to show both our country and our Church at their best: people of faith gathered in an evening of friendship, [i]civility[/i], and patriotism, to help those in need, not to endorse either candidate. Those who started the dinner sixty-seven years ago believed that you can accomplish a lot more by inviting folks of different political loyalties to an uplifting evening, rather than in closing the door to them.

Three, the teaching of the Church, so radiant in the Second Vatican Council, is that the posture of the Church towards culture, society, and government is that of [i]engagement[/i] and [i]dialogue.[/i] In other words, it’s better to invite than to ignore, more effective to talk together than to yell from a distance, more productive to open a door than to shut one. Our recent popes have been examples of this principle, receiving dozens of leaders with whom on some points they have serious disagreements. Thus did our present Holy Father graciously receive our current President of the United States. And, in the current climate, we bishops have maintained that we are open to dialogue with the administration to try and resolve our differences. What message would I send if I refused to meet with the President?

Finally, an invitation to the[i] Al Smith Dinner[/i] in no way indicates a slackening in our vigorous promotion of values we Catholic bishops believe to be at the heart of both gospel and American values, particularly the defense of human dignity, fragile life, and religious freedom. In fact, one could make the case that anyone attending the dinner, even the two candidates, would, by the vibrant solidarity of the evening, be reminded that America is at her finest when people, free to exercise their religion, assemble on behalf of poor women and their babies, born and unborn, in a spirit of [i]civility[/i] and respect.

Some have told me the invitation is a scandal. That charge weighs on me, as it would on any person of faith, but especially a pastor, who longs to give good example, never bad. So, I apologize if I have given such scandal. I suppose it’s a case of prudential judgment: would I give more scandal by inviting the two candidates, or by not inviting them?

No matter what you might think of this particular decision, might I ask your prayers for me and my brother bishops and priests who are faced with making these decisions, so that we will be wise and faithful shepherds as God calls us to be?

In the end, I’m encouraged by the example of Jesus, who was blistered by his critics for dining with those some considered sinners; and by the recognition that, if I only sat down with people who agreed with me, and I with them, or with those who were saints, I’d be taking all my meals alone.

[/quote]



I think that says it all. The Cardinal has spoken. End of Story. The more we gossip and debate about it, the more scandal it creates.

Help the Cardinal out.

Edited August 24, 2012 by BigJon16

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1345842542' post='2473675']
From the good Cardinal's blog, [i]The Gospel in the Digital Age. [/i]

[url="http://blog.archny.org/index.php/al-smith-dinner/"]http://blog.archny.o...l-smith-dinner/[/url]





I think that says it all. The Cardinal has spoken. End of Story. The more we gossip and debate about it, the more scandal it creates.

Help the Cardinal out.
[/quote]

BigJon has spoke. All arguments are invalid.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1345842542' post='2473675']
From the good Cardinal's blog, [i]The Gospel in the Digital Age. [/i]

[url="http://blog.archny.org/index.php/al-smith-dinner/"]http://blog.archny.o...l-smith-dinner/[/url]





I think that says it all. The Cardinal has spoken. End of Story. The more we gossip and debate about it, the more scandal it creates.

Help the Cardinal out.
[/quote]

[b]In the end, I’m encouraged by the example of Jesus, who was blistered by his critics for dining with those some considered sinners; and by the recognition that, if I only sat down with people who agreed with me, and I with them, or with those who were saints, I’d be taking all my meals alone.[/b]

Lets all pray that he does act towards the President at the Al Smith dinner just as Jesus did in his ministry when dining with those some considered sinners , Jesus reprimanded sinners and admonished them to repent, often directly and at other times through the use of parables.
The only problem with Cardinal Dolan's analogy, Jesus had disciples that would spread the truth, or witness his words and actions, Obama has the press that will hide the truth and twist this meeting in their "witness" to try and favor Obama.

ed