Papist Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1345150478' post='2468785'] Nancy is a heretic. The official teachings of the SSPX are not heretical as they don't disagree with [b]doctrinal [/b]or [b]dogmatic [/b]Church teaching. They are disobedient, but not heretical. Also, if you consider constantly voting for pro-abortion bills assisting in the procuring of an abortion, then Nancy is also excommunicated latae sententiae, whereas the SSPX are not excommunicated. Also... laity are not technically SSPX because they are not clergy. That'd be like saying I'm a Jesuit because I follow everything the Jesuits do and teach. I understand the purpose of a phisy tag... and I guess maybe I'm borderline on if I agree with giving it to SSPX (not that what I think matters in this circumstance). The official teachings are not entirely out of line with the Magisterium, but the individual mindsets of many of the preists and followers can be vastly so. Just look at a certain one of their bishops... I just wish no one had to have the tag b/c they were all good and faithful Catholics in line with Rome [/quote] [u][b]AGAIN[/b][/u], I was not addressing the SSPX, but your flawed logic to apply or not apply the phishy tag. Using your logic, Nancy Pelosi would not receive the phishy tag. [quote][color=#282828][font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]i disagree with SSPX getting phishy tags, because they [/font][/color][b]are [/b][color=#282828][font='Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Catholics, not just people who think they are Catholics. [/font][/color][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1345166919' post='2468897'] And just for the record, you do not get a Phishy tag just because you are SSPX. There are probably many in SSPX that are fighting hard to be in full communion with Rome. You get a Phishy tag when you come on phatmass and publicly declare, "I do not accept Vatican II and the new catechism of John Paul II". [/quote] You're absolutely right, sir. It's been my experience, however, that the two are hard to separate. And [i]that's[/i] why I called SSPX the 'dark side'. Is there an emoticon for something like, 'stirring the pot' or 'poking the fire'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1345205652' post='2469102'] You're absolutely right, sir. It's been my experience, however, that the two are hard to separate. And [i]that's[/i] why I called SSPX the 'dark side'. Is there an emoticon for something like, 'stirring the pot' or 'poking the fire'? [/quote] No, but we have one for beating a dead horse, which should be used more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 In the experience I've had thus far, it seems that the official stance of the SSPX is often rather different than the various positions of many of its less influential members, and also the laypeople associated with them. Bishop Fellay, for instance, has said some remarkably reasonable things that do not at all fit with the caricature of the SSPX as being full of rabid, ranting, rad-trads. For that reason, I do personally believe that Fellay is an honest and faithful man, and will do good things for the Church and his Society. Even Bishop Williamson, odious as his opinions may be on the Holocaust, actually seems to be a very intelligent, engaging man, based on the videos of him I've watched. Unfortunately the generalizations and caricatures don't do us any good. They cannot capture the reality of much of the situation. They have many good things to say, and I for one think it's very rewarding to listen without prejudice, as much as possible, and approach the whole SSPX issue from the perspective of two mature, reasonable parties who share the same goals and the same Catholic faith. And, just because I don't know if such a disclaimer is necessary, I am not saying necessarily that I agree with everything that is presented by the SSPX, 'party line' or not. I'm not saying anything about what I do or do not agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 It used to be that links to SSPX sources such as sspx.org and DICI were edited. Is that still the case? What about links to Youtube videos that feature SSPX speakers? The interview that CNS did with Fellay was excellent, and there are some videos of Bishop Williamson that would illustrate the point I made above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1345222544' post='2469216'] It used to be that links to SSPX sources such as sspx.org and DICI were edited. Is that still the case? What about links to Youtube videos that feature SSPX speakers? The interview that CNS did with Fellay was excellent, and there are some videos of Bishop Williamson that would illustrate the point I made above. [/quote] links or videos that are anti-Vatican II or anti-Popes are still disallowed. if the videos or links themselves don't talk about being anti-Vatican II/Popes but lead/point to other links/videos that are, then i would have a hard time approving them. CNS isn't itself anti-Vatican II/Popes so that would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1345222931' post='2469221'] links or videos that are anti-Vatican II or anti-Popes are still disallowed. if the videos or links themselves don't talk about being anti-Vatican II/Popes but lead/point to other links/videos that are, then i would have a hard time approving them. CNS isn't itself anti-Vatican II/Popes so that would be fine. [/quote] I won't post the link with Williamson then, though it's a good talk and a very good starting point for discussion. Here's the first part of Fellay's interview with CNS: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnJigNzTuY[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1345203162' post='2469086'] [u][b]AGAIN[/b][/u], I was not addressing the SSPX, but your flawed logic to apply or not apply the phishy tag. Using your logic, Nancy Pelosi would not receive the phishy tag. [/quote] I looked back at my OP quoting why ppl get phisy tags. What I was saying is not only do SSPX consider themselves to be Catholic, but they truly and actually are Catholic. Doesn't mean there aren't circumstances that warrant them getting phisy though. I realize this line is a different than what I was saying earlier in the thread. My viewpoints changed . Ppl made some good points, so I recant. It is good to know that SSPX doesn't automatically = phishy though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Maybe not, but it should mean (and maybe does), "Hey dUSt, this guy's SSPX. We should probably keep an eye on his posts in case we need to give him a fishy tag." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studiumecclesiae Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1345223560' post='2469228'] I won't post the link with Williamson then, though it's a good talk and a very good starting point for discussion. Here's the first part of Fellay's interview with CNS: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnJigNzTuY[/media] [/quote] Thanks for this beautiful video. I feel quite close to Bishop Fellay and pray for reconciliation. I don't see why people keep arguing about this case. the SSPX is neither schismatic nor heretical. Indeed, they only keep the old catechism, the old code of canon law, etc. The issue is NOT the magisterium but only just some texts and ideas of the Vatican II council. And I don't see why I should get a Fishy tag when other modernist members would profess any kinds of heresies and not get any tag at all. What I mean by that is that the SSPX is often and mostly MORE catholic than other modernist priests who just do everything BUT what the Church wants them to do. So is it being obedient??? doing whatever we want? (I'm pointing the modernists) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Studiumecclesiae' timestamp='1345474681' post='2470600']And I don't see why I should get a Fishy tag when other modernist members would profess any kinds of heresies and not get any tag at all. [/quote] sorry, but you're wrong. just because you haven't seen them, doesn't mean they don't exist. edit: i just checked through the "pham" tab up top. there are 70 members tagged phishy (including yourself). these people run the gamut of what they don't agree with the Church about. Edited August 20, 2012 by Lil Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='Studiumecclesiae' timestamp='1345474681' post='2470600'] And I don't see why I should get a Fishy tag when other modernist members would profess any kinds of heresies and not get any tag at all. What I mean by that is that the SSPX is often and mostly MORE catholic than other modernist priests who just do everything BUT what the Church wants them to do. So is it being obedient??? doing whatever we want? (I'm pointing the modernists) [/quote] Something about a log in one's own eye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1345150783' post='2468788'] So what Red is saying is this: No. Nothing else. That's it. [/quote] I also thought they could not go on chat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Studiumecclesiae' timestamp='1345474681' post='2470600'] Thanks for this beautiful video. I feel quite close to Bishop Fellay and pray for reconciliation. I don't see why people keep arguing about this case. the SSPX is neither schismatic nor heretical. Indeed, they only keep the old catechism, the old code of canon law, etc. The issue is NOT the magisterium but only just some texts and ideas of the Vatican II council. And I don't see why I should get a Fishy tag when other modernist members would profess any kinds of heresies and not get any tag at all. What I mean by that is that the SSPX is often and mostly MORE catholic than other modernist priests who just do everything BUT what the Church wants them to do. So is it being obedient??? doing whatever we want? (I'm pointing the modernists) [/quote] Obedience is traditional. Edited August 20, 2012 by Papist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the171 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='the171' timestamp='1345524048' post='2471092'] So how about the Eucharist? That's pretty razzle dazzle! [/quote] *insert dramatic falling to my knees and throwing my hands in the air* YOU'RE TEARING US ALL APARRRRRT!!!! Edited August 21, 2012 by the171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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