Sspx Members Welcome?

[Papist]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1345590379' post='2471530']

Time and time again in Church history we have seen church heirarchy wrong on non dogmatic non doctrinal matters. Gallileo anyone? It most certainly does not mean they are always wrong or usually wrong, but to discount the possibility is a little silly. It certainly isn't speaking against the Vatican to say that in the future it may be determined that they were mistaken in some regard on a matter that is not infallible.

I personally don't ever foresee the Church coming out and saying the SSPX was totally in the right on everything, but she's already come out and admitted fault with a few things associated with the SSPX (Summorum Pontificum re-instating a form of the mass that should never have been removed, lifting of the excommunications without the bishops recanting anything).
[/quote]
And what fault has the SSPX admitted?

[Slappo]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1345593943' post='2471574']
And what fault has the SSPX admitted?
[/quote]

Not sure what that has to do with my post? Just because they haven't admitted fault certainly doesn't mean they don't have a bucket load.

[Amory]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1345565401' post='2471270']
If you know virtually any other European language, you know that they have two forms of you - the so called "t" - "v" distinction. In French, it's tu/vous, in German it's du/Sie, in Spanish it's tu/usted, in Russian it's ty/vy, in Latin, it was tu/vobis.
[/quote]

Tu / [i]vos[/i], with regard to Latin, actually. It's worth pointing out, though, that neither the classical Latin of Cicero and Vergil, nor the late antique Latin of Jerome and Augustine, nor really even the medieval Latin of Aquinas contained a T-V distinction comparable to that used in the Romance languages. The main example of the T-V distinction, one only used in very late Latin (and even then infrequently), was in addressing figures who would have used the "royal we," such as the pope.

Also, I'm fairly certain that the use of "thou" to translate the second person singular in texts such as the Lord's Prayer was not so much about using the familiar form and as it was about preserving the distinction between second person singular and second person plural in the original. This is also why the translators of the King James Version used "thou" so frequently, despite the fact that by the early 17th century it already sounded rather archaic.

[Amory]

[quote name='Studiumecclesiae' timestamp='1345558795' post='2471220']
He is not our friend,
[/quote]

This is only true if you are not in the state of grace.

According to the Catholic understanding of justification, those in the state of grace are, in fact, friends of God, as mentioned twice in the Council of Trent.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Amory

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Studiumecclesiae' timestamp='1345558795' post='2471220']
I can't believe you can be saying such serious thing!
So to you it is acceptable these Assisi Meetings, and putting the two religions as EQUAL?
Look what Inter-religious dialogue leads us to:
[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/vatican/compromissions/coran_arras001.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/vatican/compromissions/coran_arras01.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/vatican/compromissions/coran_arras02.jpg[/img]
A muslim preaching like a priest!!!

Or worse... What is on the Blessed altar? Nothing but...
[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/vatican/compromissions/coran_arras03.jpg[/img]
The Holy Kuran!!!


I agree that the Church is missionary! But what people don't seem to acknowledge is that it already was SO missionary before Vatican II, and Mgr Lefebvre was a Missionary Father. And we got a great decline in missionary communities because of Vatican II and esp. this tendency to say "all religions are right, we adore the same God, etc etc." People lose faith because of this great heresy.
[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/mediatheque/sermonsecrits/TissierVillepreux101009/delegueApostolique.jpg[/img]


Well I'm sorry but no church is perfect as we're all sinners. I've been to several SSPX chapels, and it's not necessary like that. You can't judge on a first impression. Of course it isn't allowed to gossip in a chapel!

No one is worshipping tradition. We are worshipping GOD, the Almighty. He is not our friend, we won't call Him "you" but "Thou", we won't show up bareheaded or with short sleeves, out of RESPECT. Boys won't show up wearing shorts, of course! Such lack of respect, and in particular, you wouldn't do it in front of the head of the state, would you? Same for God. Why should we have to meet the Holy Father (face to face) with a mantilla on when it's not obliged before the Almighty? It doesn't make sense.
Modernism does not make sense. You'd say "Our Father who art in heaven" but "Hail Mary... the Lord is with you", it's not logical.
So who is worshipping who? Don't say the traddies worship tradition, when they thrive to please God as well as Virgin Mary.


Well dialogue is different from letting people walk all over us.
[/quote]

Where in the Bible does it state God isn't to be your friend?

And by the way, I say "The Lord is with thee", because I like traditional things. In fact, I hate it when people say "The Lord is with you" when they do the Hail Mary, but that's simply because I was raised with "thee". Like Airways I enjoy flowery language in prayers. I have prayer books and in these prayer books I have favorite prayers, and I noticed almost all of them have this sort of language in them. But that doesn't mean if I preferred "you" I would be a great sinner. This is the 21st century. We don't speak old English. And do you know how I know that? Because if someone spoke in old English we wouldn't know a flooping thing they were saying, because it sounds like a complete foreign language to us. Languages progress and change throughout the centuries. You can't get bent out of shape for languages to take their natural course.

Edited August 22, 2012 by FuturePriest387

[PhuturePriest]

I have always been one that liked preaching in a bold and fearless manner. Why do you think I have a picture of Michael Voris to the left of me? But I do believe in God's love and his compassion. Inviting a Muslim to your local Church isn't such a bad thing. How else do you expect us to convert people? What lies within a Catholic Church is the centrality of all Catholic teaching: the true presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. How is a non-believer to convert without even seeing the Eucharist and the Mass before his own eyes? The Eucharist is such a truly wonderful thing that no other Church has. Why would be disallow non-believers who are interested in seeing Him? I believe Jesus said something like "Let the children come to me." when the disciples wouldn't let them come near him. We can come to Jesus like a little child even when we are adults. This was the centrality of Saint Therese of Lisieux's spirituality. If one wishes to come to Jesus like a little child and we deny him, we have disobeyed Christ himself.

[Maximilianus]

um, am I the only one that sees studiem's 'friend' comment to mean that God is not just another homie, albeit through a flawed manner?

[To Jesus Through Mary]

[quote name='Maximilianus' timestamp='1345623454' post='2471876']
um, am I the only one that sees studiem's 'friend' comment to mean that God is not just another homie, albeit through a flawed manner?
[/quote]


Nope I am with you. Jesus did call us friend, but in the Protestant world they took it to a whole knew level. That mentality has not-so-slowly found it's way into the Church. It became Jesus "My Buddy" type of mentality. In the process the loss of the fear of God. Yes, amazingly enough, He is calling us to the intimacy of friendship and moving us out of just servitude (which if you look at the passage as a whole that is what he is referring to) but we still must have a fear of God.

[beatitude]

When St Teresa of Avila's wagon axle broke and pitched her into the road, she shook her fist to the heavens and said to God, "If this is how you treat your friends, no wonder you have so few of them!"

I don't think anybody could accuse her of not having proper fear of the Lord, but an indignant exclamation in the colloquial Spanish of her day is very different from the beautiful formal prayers of our tradition. Yet they belong in the same prayer book.

This informality is not Protestant - it's human. Sometimes when I have been in pain, or very frightened, or angry, I have poured out my jumbled thoughts pell-mell to God, without giving much thought to the language I used. Kneeling in my room during my designated prayer times, I use my breviary and the rosary. Formal prayer and lectio divina helped me to learn to really trust God. This trust sometimes expresses itself in more informal and spontaneous cries/grumbles/thank-yous as I go about my day.

[Papist]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1345605343' post='2471733']
Not sure what that has to do with my post? Just because they haven't admitted fault certainly doesn't mean they don't have a bucket load.
[/quote]
Your post's message is that the Church was in error against the SSPX and Lefebrve, and has admitted it. And nothing of the wrongs of the SSPX, which is the biggest problem I have with these conversations. People that support SSPX believe SSPX have done/doing no wrong and for reconciliation with the Church to happen is for the Church to 100% change to the ways of SSPX. In a thread a while back, someone posted that he could see Lefebrve being canonized someday.

[KnightofChrist]

Dp

Edited August 22, 2012 by KnightofChrist

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1345633849' post='2471903']

Your post's message is that the Church was in error against the SSPX and Lefebrve, and has admitted it. And nothing of the wrongs of the SSPX, which is the biggest problem I have with these conversations. People that support SSPX believe SSPX have done/doing no wrong and for reconciliation with the Church to happen is for the Church to 100% change to the ways of SSPX. In a thread a while back, someone posted that he could see Lefebrve being canonized someday.
[/quote]

That was not the message of Slappo's post nor is it the message of Nihil's posts. The message is the Church's relationship with the SSPX has already developed for the better compared to 1988. And that this positive development will continue in the future in ways that we do not yet understand or have the ability to see now.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1345632859' post='2471899']
When St Teresa of Avila's wagon axle broke and pitched her into the road, she shook her fist to the heavens and said to God, "If this is how you treat your friends, no wonder you have so few of them!"

I don't think anybody could accuse her of not having proper fear of the Lord, but an indignant exclamation in the colloquial Spanish of her day is very different from the beautiful formal prayers of our tradition. Yet they belong in the same prayer book.

This informality is not Protestant - it's human. Sometimes when I have been in pain, or very frightened, or angry, I have poured out my jumbled thoughts pell-mell to God, without giving much thought to the language I used. Kneeling in my room during my designated prayer times, I use my breviary and the rosary. Formal prayer and lectio divina helped me to learn to really trust God. This trust sometimes expresses itself in more informal and spontaneous cries/grumbles/thank-yous as I go about my day.
[/quote]

Indeed.

[Papist]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1345639477' post='2471917']
That was not the message of Slappo's post nor is it the message of Nihil's posts. The message is the Church's relationship with the SSPX has already developed for the better compared to 1988. And that this positive development will continue in the future in ways that we do not yet understand or have the ability to see now.
[/quote]
I beg to differ. The tone is the defense of the SSPX while elaborating on the problematic actions by the Church. It is extremely rare that I hear from SSPX supporters the problematic actions by the Lefebrve and/or the SSPX, and what actions are the SSPX taking to reconcile. It is always the Church needs to do this and the Church needs to stop doing that for the SSPX to come back in fullness.

I am not a SSPX supporter, nor am I a SSPX hater. I would love for them to come back into the fullness of the Church. But until [u]BOTH [/u]sides are honest and open with humility, that is not likely to happen.

[KnightofChrist]

I've known Nihil and Slappo for sometime now and I've seen them express both positive and negative views about the SSPX. I've never seen them actually say the type of things that you say their tone says.