School And Stuff Like That

[Ice_nine]

So this whole vocation thing has been put on hold for a bit while I tried to earn some dollars this summer so I can get thru the next few years of school and such. Looks like the loan situation won't be too bad, but I know thjat most orders want no debt and that's gonna take prob a couple years at least for me to pay off. My debt isn't crazy, but that's not rly what this is about.

I feel almost torn between academic life and spiritual life. I mean, I'm at least going to need to pay back loans when I get out of school which I will need a job for, but in terms of setting a career path I start to think "does this mean I'm basically abandoning my vocation?" I don't think it does, but at the same time, thinking about applying for research grants and looking for job/internship opportunities during my undergrad that would be valuable in my field of study (psychology) and possibly thinking about graduate school . . . I just feel like, where is God fitting into all of this? I've exchanged emails with some vocation directors, one saying graduate school would be a great help for religious life, another saying that would be something one might do during temporary vows.

I guess I don't know how to synthesize these two worlds. And thus I feel stuck as to what step I should take in my academic career. Despite how much of a ignoramus I may seem here from time to time, I've always been strong academically and I think that if I have a gift I should put it to use, I'm just confused as to how compatible this is with apostolic life (which I'm discerning).

This figuring poo out on your own stuff is highly overrated. I know that none of you know my situation enough to give super pertinent guidance and might recommend a spiritual director or some other guru, but how in the hell does one acquire that? There should be an online thing, like they have for psychics amirite? Thing is, I'm not good at asking things like these in person, frankly because I don't know who to ask, so here I am ranting.

I know that's convoluted, but give me anything you got!

[OnlySunshine]

First of all, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you? The reason I ask is because of the age limit that many orders impose. It's very important to think about these things when discerning the possibility of a vocation. I'm 29 and on the cusp of many limits. About a year ago, I contacted an order that said if I wanted to enter, I needed to do it soon because I would soon be too old!

Most importantly, what are you majoring in? This factors in to the kind of orders you are looking into. While some education is important, there is a risk of putting off your discernment too much and being a perpetual discerner. While graduate school is commendable, which is more important -- your spiritual life or your education? Education is valuable, don't get me wrong, but we won't need education when we get to heaven. In fact, the least educated saints turned out to be some of the most valuable people because of their humility and their childlike trust. There are, however, doctors of the Church like St. Thomas Aquinas and other scholarly saints like St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross and St. Gianna Molla who used their education for the Church's advantage.

It is highly recommended that you don't accumulate debt if you are actively considering a vocation. There are groups that help pay them off, but they are usually for people who didn't know they were going to discern or felt called later. Is there something that you need to wait on before you discern like family illness or dependant parents? If you can't discern because of canonical impediment, that's a totally different story.

This may be confusing but there is a lot to think about. Obviously, you have a gift for education and many active/contemplative orders send their Sisters to school during formation to receive their education for whatever apostolate they will be assigned to. There are several that focus on academics and human knowledge such as the Dominican Sisters of Mary Mother of the Eucharist, Religious Sisters of Mercy of Alma, Sisters of the Third Order of St. Francis (Peoria Franciscans), etc. But if you are interested in an order like the Franciscan Sisters of the Renewal, a college degree is not necessary because they don't require one for their apostolates.

I hope this helps.

Edited August 14, 2012 by MaterMisericordiae

[Ice_nine]

Thanks, it certainly answers some questions. I'm majoring in psychology so I think that education in this arena would be useful if I got involved in the mental health field, or research areas of psychology that intersect with religion (because I think many of them do). Of course some schools of psychology like to reduce human behavior to physical phenomena and can be materialistic, I also think there are many schools that can illuminate and inform spirituality and vice versa. At the moment I'm looking for how I can get the best out of the remaining undergrad and how to best prepare myself for life after school, which I'm hoping will include religious life.

Btw, I'm 22. I should wrap up my undergrad at 24. I know a lot of orders tend to have the entrance cut-off around 30 or so. Hopefully I can get my poo together beforehand

Those Dominicans keep popping up tho. Maybe I should look more into that

[Kylie Spinelli]

This is like the story of my (current) life here! I am going to be a sr in high school in the fall, and while everyone is pushing colleges (which are NOT cheap!) and figuring out what I want to do with my life, I'm in the middle of discernment and I feel that, even though it's early in my discernment, I have more in store for me than just going to school.
I really need a spiritual director. Like, REALLY badly . I just can't find someone who is able to help me with this, who I can talk to face to face and who knows my story....
Excited to see what else people post on this thread. THANK YOU for making it; I'm so glad that someone else is going through the same thing as me!!
God bless!!

[ToJesusMyHeart]

Your diocese can provide you with a spiritual director who can give you valuable advice and counsel for your concerns.

[Gemma_Kateri]

I was where you are about a year ago(and now I'm applying for entrance with a community!). Obviously your case might be different, but I know that the more I put religious life on the back burner and looked at grad schools and stuff, the more anxious I felt. As soon as I surrendered all my expectations and hopes - stopped trying to "fit" God into my plans and made discernment my #1 priority everything began falling into place. The Lord might ask you to give up on some things for now, because he has bigger and better things in store.

People make the mistake of using vocation to simply mean a calling to religious life. Your vocation is how God is asking you to serve the world - who he is calling you to be. Therefore everything you do should be towards that. While making a decision, pray about what will help you be most yourself.

As for debt, if the Lord wants you to be a sister he will take care of it. I am experiencing an outpouring of generosity right now and will hopefully pay off my debt in a record amount of time.

Definitely get a spiritual director! Ask a priest or sister you are close to. You could even ask one of the sisters at the orders you are looking at. This is what I did and she didn't pressure me to join her particular order.

[quote name='Kylie Spinelli' timestamp='1344983441' post='2467638']
This is like the story of my (current) life here! I am going to be a sr in high school in the fall, and while everyone is pushing colleges (which are NOT cheap!) and figuring out what I want to do with my life, I'm in the middle of discernment and I feel that, even though it's early in my discernment, I have more in store for me than just going to school.
I really need a spiritual director. Like, REALLY badly . I just can't find someone who is able to help me with this, who I can talk to face to face and who knows my story....
Excited to see what else people post on this thread. THANK YOU for making it; I'm so glad that someone else is going through the same thing as me!!
God bless!!
[/quote]

And Kylie, this is really smart! Definitely discern really seriously in the upcoming year. If God is truly calling you to religious life it might be more logical to not go to college first. I did that, and now I'm stuck with paying off student loans. You may end up in an order that pays for your college degree (like the DSMME) or you may not need one. Don't let others pressure you and stay strong!

[filius_angelorum]

Hm. I think it all matters where you feel called and what their attitude towards education is. A few years ago, I began thinking about the FSSP and discussed with a priest about whether or not I should wait to finish undergrad. He said no. I decided that the answer was yes. Now, I wouldn't trade the experiences I have had for the last few years for anything in the world...except perhaps being already four years into seminary and a subdeacon. God makes lemonade out of lemons, but he doesn't usually make orange juice, unless you need him to do so.

So my thought is that you should make an initial choice on a community, ask them for their advice, act on their advice, and if it doesn't work start over from where you began. God can give do-overs.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

Finding a spiritual director is a really fantastic idea. If you haven't already (or haven't in awhile) contacted the vocation director for your diocese, I'd do that as well, or contact a vd from a religious community you are interested in.

To find an SD, ask your pastor or a trusted religious to be yours--or even a lay person. Some catholic campus groups even have it offered--that's how I found my spiritual director. My university has religious sisters, priests, and laypeople available for spiritual direction, all trained and certified by the diocese. Most campus ministry programs have a list of people who can be spiritual directors.

For Kylie: I went to university instead of entering right out of high school, and I'm really glad I did! I did receive scholarships, and I went to a state school (much less expensive!), so I will graduate with zero debt. It is possible to do, and there is scholarship money out there. Many states have programs that pay for tuition to state schools, so if you have done well in high school and have a reasonable gpa, it's possible. My faith has grown by leaps and bounds and I had to grow up a lot in my faith by attending university. I also met some amesome sisters I now count as my friends, and began looking at religious orders i never thought I'd even consider.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='filius_angelorum' timestamp='1344984854' post='2467645']
So my thought is that you should make an initial choice on a community, ask them for their advice, act on their advice, and if it doesn't work start over from where you began. God can give do-overs.
[/quote]

This is good advice. Thank you.

[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1344985870' post='2467652']
Finding a spiritual director is a really fantastic idea. If you haven't already (or haven't in awhile) contacted the vocation director for your diocese, I'd do that as well, or contact a vd from a religious community you are interested in.
[/quote]

There's a vocations director for every diocese? That seems like a big job for one person. I think I need to re-research the local orders here, and maybe reach out to the peoples who run that bizniss and all.

I don't really have a priest or religious that I would say I'm close enough to ask. I have interpersonal impediments. Some people call it social retardation, if the shoe fits! But yeah talking to acquaintances about deeply personal things seems as about as pleasant as driving toothpicks under my toenails . Something I'll have to get over? Probably. I just think taking that initial start up of this choo choo is gonna be a challenge.

pray for me. Maybe God will give me a gentle shove, or a kick in the ass. Either will work imo.

[quote]To find an SD, ask your pastor or a trusted religious to be yours--or even a lay person. Some catholic campus groups even have it offered--that's how I found my spiritual director. My university has religious sisters, priests, and laypeople available for spiritual direction, all trained and certified by the diocese. Most campus ministry programs have a list of people who can be spiritual directors.[/quote]

I don't think my university has much in the way of spiritual direction. I've checked before, and since I don't live on campus (or even super close to it) I don't know if it'd work anyhow. I'm a bit of a hermit for the most part, so navigating the social strata to find guidance feels awkward and probably more complicated than it is for your normal person. I used to have severe social anxiety, where I couldn't even have a simple convo with someone sans major panic attack, so at least I've made progress.

Sorry, a lot of this is venting! Prayers are appreciated in any case

[emmaberry]

I attended one year of university and while I am glad that I did, because it will help with homesickness and other independence type things in religious life, I wish I had been receptive to my calling earlier. College was a blast, and I love the friends and experiences I had, but God is first, and I wish I had answered Him right out of high school instead of shutting out His voice until my freshman year.

In our culture, education, along with many other things, can become an idol for many people. If your vocation is something that you would need a degree to fulfill, then get your degree and God will give you the grace to remain close to Him in spite of (or because of, who knows!) your studies. However, if you're like me and your vocation has nothing to do with education, then don't put yourself where God does not want you! Luckily, my parents were paying for school, so I didn't reap any debt out of my disobedience to God, but I know this is a rare occurrence in modern society.

God bless, and I will be praying for your discernment.

Edited August 15, 2012 by emmaberry

[TheresaThoma]

If there is a particular community you are interested in ask them about it. If you have yet to find a community then keep going academically more education never hurt anyone.
I also struggle with college/Grad school vs religious life (though my degree isn't as easily transferrable, its in Physics). I discussed this with the VD for the community I am interested in and she suggested I finish my undergrad work first before considering entering. In my case though I am not taking on any more debt to finish my degree so it is a better idea for me to wait a year or two and finish up. I am also applying for a scholarship that would pay for my schooling but I would have to work for a year after I graduate. I'm doing my best but at the same time trusting that if that is where God wants me He will put me there.
As far as grad school I am doing what I can to keep that option open. I am doing my best in school and doing internships as well. They have really helped me learn more about myself (living halfway across the country by myself taught me a lot). Like many people have said you don't really know if you are called to religious life 100% until you make your final vows. So I don't want to close that option off.
At one point I was really hesitant about even finishing my undergrad and I talked with a Dominican priest friend about it. He advised me to finish it up and keep my options open. That way I was more free to discern. By having a degree and other skills you don't feel like you have no where else to go if you leave. This helps you know that you are truly called and not making a decision based on the feeling you can't do anything else.
Over all I guess I am trying to say is keep your options open regarding grad school/career but be willing to let it go if God calls you to religious life.
I know of a DSMME Sister who was called to the religious life and walked away from a full scholarship for her Masters and PhD. She had kept that option open until she knew she was called to religious life. (I think she ended up going back after her formation to the university, who were so happy to have her back they gave her the scholarship back).

This is all based on what I have figured out thus far. Things may change but I am trying the best on my end and trusting that even if I do make a "mistake" God will take care of me. Also I look to St Edith Stien, she was asked by her SD to continue teaching even though both she and her SD felt she was called to a Carmelite vocation, which it turns out she was. She taught and worked until it was clear it was time for her to enter. Remember obedience and following God's will start outside of the cloister or religious life!

[OnlySunshine]

I just wanted to point out that I'm in the awkward, in-between position. I finished the psychological evaluation and the results were mailed this past Saturday. However, I still have to wait for the Provincial Superior to read the report and consult with Mother General overseas. I have school starting on August 20th as I am returning to start studies on Medical Office Administration for the Associate in Science degree. Now, I don't have to pay a dime out of my own pocket since I am receiving the Federal Pell Grant, but I hope my enrollment in school doesn't interfere with God's will. I have a great desire and attraction to enter religious life soon and it won't go away, but I don't want to sit on my hands and do nothing, either. I'm not working at the moment, but I'm hoping to get involved with the Federal Work Study program as soon as the semester starts.

I keep praying that everything will work out and I will be allowed to enter soon. I don't know if they will make me wait until after the New Year or they will want me to come and start formation sooner than that. I'm pretty much left in the dark. All I can do is trust. I am just glad that I'm not accumulating any student debt.