Adrestia Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I wish instrument use was the biggest problem in our church. I wish widespread use of organs could fix the serious problems. Edited August 17, 2012 by Adrestia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 i wish widespread use of good singing would break out at ours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Marx Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1345166904' post='2468896'] A bishop cannot act outside the Magisterium. The piano is forbidden universally, by a Pope, bishops cannot supersede a Pope, a bishop cannot apply a particular and call it good. The same applies to the guitar. [/quote] Pope Pius X's statement was not ex cathedra. It can be changed. Pope says an instrument is absolutely banned. Magisterium comes back later and lifts the absolute ban, making the matter relative to the local bishop's orders. I see no problem with this. Unless you mean to argue that Sacrosanctum Concilium is not a valid document and Vatican II wasn't the work of the Magisterium. Edited August 17, 2012 by Tally Marx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1345175104' post='2468983'] Pope Pius X's statement was not ex cathedra. It can be changed. Pope says an instrument is absolutely banned. Magisterium comes back later and lifts the absolute ban, making the matter relative to the local bishop's orders. I see no problem with this. Unless you mean to argue that Sacrosanctum Concilium is not a valid document and Vatican II wasn't the work of the Magisterium. [/quote] It has not changed. There has been no lift on the ban of the piano. Vatican II was valid, as well as a act of the Magisterium. But Sacrosanctum Concilium in no way lifts the ban nor does it allow a bishop to supersede a binding order of the Holy Pontiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1345166540' post='2468893'] I have read the whole thread, as well as the various other threads about the same topic. You pretty much make the same arguments as you've always have that Cam42 defeated with well sourced Church documents. Nothing you've offered here is really new. Same old same old. I did contact him and asked for his views on the topic. So... surprise! Despite what you may think I have a profound respect for his wealth of knowledge as it pertains to Church teaching. He recalls the phone calls and I'm sure it was fun for him to easily crush your arguments and much of the fallacies upon which your arguments were based. Whether or not Catholic politicians commit heresy, or become some form of heretic by openly rejecting the Church's fundamental teachings on the sanctity of life is not a matter of this debate. But I understand the reasoning to bring it up. In the misery of being reminded of just how bad Cam42 crushed your arguments, you wish I be your company in that regard. [/quote] You're cute when you're small and petty. But please understand KFC I would not prefer your company in any regard. Camster and I have been friends irl for years. We laughed and joked throughout our debate. You cried. Mission Airways and I were having a very lovely civil discourse. Your sad and pathetic attempts at attention successfully derailed a pretty productive conversation. Nice! Be proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 This pretty much articulates my thoughts regarding guitars in the Mass. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvR6d08L3nc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvR6d08L3nc[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I was going to give a real response but I think this thread has actually (unlike many music threads on Pm) come to a place where it makes sense for it to die. Jaime, it's been fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I agree. I learned some things, and maybe my perception of the matter softened a bit. And I only cursed Jaime's name like three or four times in my head. [img]http://fernandapaiva.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/everything_went_better_than_expected.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1345314330' post='2469754'] I agree. I learned some things, and maybe my perception of the matter softened a bit. And I only cursed Jaime's name like three or four times in my head. [img]http://fernandapaiva.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/everything_went_better_than_expected.jpg[/img] [/quote] After I exposed your latent love for xylophone! For what it's worth I thought it was a good conversation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the171 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Wow. I've never heard of a music thread ending without mod intervention. Look at y'all! Stepping up in the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1344875216' post='2466943'] I was under the impression that KofC kind of touched on this in his first post in this thread, albeit in a much more minimalistic way. [/quote] Personally I love KFC, especially the original recipe, those secret herbs and spices are hard to beat ! ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 [quote name='the171' timestamp='1345524148' post='2471093'] Wow. I've never heard of a music thread ending without mod intervention. Look at y'all! Stepping up in the world! [/quote] This can be changed rather easily. I dare you to say the words, "Ottiavani Intervention". Just kidding, it is rather refreshing to see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 [quote name='BG45' timestamp='1345586197' post='2471483'] This can be changed rather easily. I dare you to say the words, "Ottiavani Intervention". Just kidding, it is rather refreshing to see! [/quote] Cardinal Ottaviani is kind of my hero. [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NxD3nQCosuA/SvxKrCSas6I/AAAAAAAABgs/rNF3cbUjVi8/s400/220px-AlfredoOttaviani.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1345168859' post='2468912'] I wish instrument use was the biggest problem in our church. I wish widespread use of organs could fix the serious problems. [/quote] Widespread use of the heart would fix a whole load of problems in my Church, and probably in most everyone else's parish on this phorum as well. Edited August 21, 2012 by cmariadiaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1345586237' post='2471484'] Cardinal Ottaviani is kind of my hero. [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NxD3nQCosuA/SvxKrCSas6I/AAAAAAAABgs/rNF3cbUjVi8/s400/220px-AlfredoOttaviani.jpg[/img] [/quote] Now that is a man who looks confident in red. Though you took my dare a step further with the pic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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