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Usccb Allows Guitars At Mass


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carmenchristi

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1345056598' post='2468114']
Says the person whos been here for a year
[/quote]

Well... sorry... I should have known better than to make a joke. Some people take themselves so seriously.

It might indicate something though if the pm neophyte realizes that it's a dead topic.... just sayin'...

Didn't mean to interrupt... carry on...

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[quote name='carmenchristi' timestamp='1345058014' post='2468136']
Well... sorry... I should have known better than to make a joke. Some people take themselves so seriously.

It might indicate something though if the pm neophyte realizes that it's a dead topic.... just sayin'...

Didn't mean to interrupt... carry on...
[/quote]

No I apologize. For all I know you've been visiting the place for years before getting a username

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carmenchristi

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1345058133' post='2468139']
No I apologize. For all I know you've been visiting the place for years before getting a username
[/quote]

:ninja: ;)

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missionseeker

][quote name='carmenchristi' timestamp='1345058014' post='2468136']


Well... sorry... I should have known better than to make a joke. Some people take themselves so seriously.

It might indicate something though if the pm neophyte realizes that it's a dead topic.... just sayin'...

Didn't mean to interrupt... carry on...
[/quote]Jokes are only tolerated during certain parts of the year in certain phorums :P

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missionseeker

Jaime, I will respond later when I have more than a few minutes at a time to pay attention to it. I was in a hurry this morning so even I wasn't happy with my response after I read it

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[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1345058831' post='2468148']
Jaime, I will respond later when I have more than a few minutes at a time to pay attention to it. I was in a hurry this morning so even I wasn't happy with my response after I read it
[/quote]

It's all good!

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[url="http://www.adoremus.org/0703Soloists.html"]http://www.adoremus.org/0703Soloists.html[/url]

[url="http://www.adoremus.org/0903Organists.html"]http://www.adoremus.org/0903Organists.html[/url]

[url="http://www.adoremus.org/1003Music.html"]http://www.adoremus.org/1003Music.html[/url]

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Vincent Vega

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1345054014' post='2468076']
Seriously? I'm having a hard time with this one because you being a musician, this should be a no brainer. The mandolin has 4 sets of paired strings tuned in the same fashion as a violin. It's about as similar to a guitar as an organ is to a xylophone.
[/quote]
Not according to Drs. Hornbostel and Sachs.
[quote][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]321.32 Necked lutes[/size][/font][/color][list]
[*]321.321 Necked bowl lute – [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandolin"]Mandolin[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balalaika"]Balalaika[/url], etc.
[*]321.322 Necked box lutes – [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar"]Guitar[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin"]Violin[/url], etc.
[/list]
[/quote]
[quote]
[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]111.2 Percussion idiophones – The instrument is struck either with a non-sonorous object (hand, stick, striker) or against a non-sonorous object (human body, the ground).[/size][/font][/color][list]
[*]111.21 Percussion sticks.
[list]
[*][size=3]111.212 Sets of percussion sticks in a range of different pitches combined into one instrument. – All [/size][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylophones"]xylophones[/url][size=3], as long as their sounding components are not in two different planes.[/size][size=3]421.2 Flutes with duct or duct flutes – A narrow duct directs the air-stream against the sharp edge of a lateral orifice[/size]
[/list]
[/list]
[size=3]​[/size]
[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]421.222 Sets of flutes with internal duct. [We'll use this as the definition of organ since there are multiple ways that organ pipes can produce sound.][/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornbostel%E2%80%93Sachs

As you can see, the mandolin and guitar are as closely related as is possible short of being in the exact same basic category. The organ and xylophone are quite far removed.

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[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1345057193' post='2468125']
Maybe the better point I should make is that there are posts in this thread that suggest that the use of guitar makes the liturgy less reverent. [/quote]

If an instrument is not permitted for use in the liturgy, than to use that instrument in the liturgy would make the liturgy less reverent. Liturgical abuse is less reverent than non-liturgical abuse.

People on PM saying the guitar makes mass less reverent is not anything new, because almost every single guitar debate people argue that the guitar is an instrument not permitted for use in the liturgy.

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[img]http://www.deaganresource.com/images/872.jpg[/img]

Anything familiar to you as an organist about the layout of the xylophone? How long do you think it would take an organist to sight read and play the melody line of song on the xylophone even if they've never played it before?

Now I can tell you for certain. If a mandolin player were to try to sight read a melody line on guitar (or vice versa) without ever having a lesson, it would not happen. They wouldn't have the first place to begin

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[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1345062706' post='2468185']
If an instrument is not permitted for use in the liturgy, than to use that instrument in the liturgy would make the liturgy less reverent. Liturgical abuse is less reverent than non-liturgical abuse.

People on PM saying the guitar makes mass less reverent is not anything new, because almost every single guitar debate people argue that the guitar is an instrument not permitted for use in the liturgy.
[/quote]

And here is the crux of the problem. If a guitar (an object) makes the mass less reverent, then it would make it less reverent everywhere, including South and Central America. Now if you hold that opinion, you are stating that the masses in South and Central America are automatically less reverent. the organ (an object) does not make a mass more reverent.

No one wants to make the argument that there needs to be better MUSIC for the liturgy. Now that's an argument where we would all be on the same side.

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franciscanheart

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1345057884' post='2468133']
It's actually a pretty civilized thread compared to lots.
[/quote]
So far. :|


[quote name='carmenchristi' timestamp='1345058014' post='2468136']
Well... sorry... I should have known better than to make a joke. Some people take themselves so seriously.

It might indicate something though if the pm neophyte realizes that it's a dead topic.... just sayin'...

Didn't mean to interrupt... carry on...
[/quote]
Jokes aren't jokes in the Debate Table; they're reasons to bug the moderators about personal attacks. :|

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1345058133' post='2468139']
No I apologize. For all I know you've been visiting the place for years before getting a username
[/quote]
:huh: You people are way too civilized and kind.

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1345058737' post='2468147']
Jokes are only tolerated during certain parts of the year in certain phorums :P
[/quote]
:|

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Vincent Vega

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1345062880' post='2468188']
[img]http://www.deaganresource.com/images/872.jpg[/img]

Anything familiar to you as an organist about the layout of the xylophone? How long do you think it would take an organist to sight read and play the melody line of song on the xylophone even if they've never played it before?

Now I can tell you for certain. If a mandolin player were to try to sight read a melody line on guitar (or vice versa) without ever having a lesson, it would not happen. They wouldn't have the first place to begin
[/quote]
I'm not terribly concerned about how any given instrument looks, but rather how the sound is produced, and what sort of sound is produced. I imagine the church is also more concerned with the sound produced, given the wording of many/most[/all?] of the documents about sacred music.

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