Life Teen Mass

[BG45]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1344879256' post='2466984']
Yes, that's why I hate all anthropocentric songs (they're not hymns, hymns are addressed to God or other beings who are not us (e.g., the BVM, saints, etc)), like Here I am, Lord, I am the Bread of Life, etc. etc.
[/quote]

"I am the Bread of Life". Thank you! I could hear the tune in my head earlier and that's what I was thinking of, but I couldn't get the words to come to mind for the life of me. (I even knew it was in a GIA Publications Gather hymnal which talks in its preface about how Gather is their more inclusive and modern work...yes I once read the preface to our hymnal while waiting for Confession after I prayed. The line was really long.)

And nice technical term, I'd not heard it before, but it makes sense. So basically not Haugen/Haas stuff at all? (They were lampooned earlier I know, but their songs do seem to fit the anthropocentric definition you provided.)

[the171]

SACRED HARP!! SACRED HARP!! I LOVE sacred harp. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW!!

[Papist]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYNRXfUU_fg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYNRXfUU_fg[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF8X8wPeTOc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF8X8wPeTOc[/url]

Edited August 13, 2012 by Papist

[Papist]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8N53r9RupU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8N53r9RupU[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQof8VwVxP4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQof8VwVxP4[/url]

[franciscanheart]

What's the point of those, Papist? Trying to balance us out?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1344888338' post='2467095']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYNRXfUU_fg[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF8X8wPeTOc[/media]
[/quote]
+1000 props for my absolute favorite chant setting of the Gloria.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1344883972' post='2467041']
And nice technical term, I'd not heard it before, but it makes sense. So basically not Haugen/Haas stuff at all? (They were lampooned earlier I know, but their songs do seem to fit the anthropocentric definition you provided.)
[/quote]
Some of their stuff might be okay, I don't know. I've only spent enough time with them to know that I don't really like spending time with them.

[Aloysius]

haven't read every post, so sorry if this has already been said better: the biggest issue in sacred music for me is the fact that songs and hymns have totally displaced the propers of the liturgy. While this is allowable according to the GIRM, the fact that we replace so many mass propers (antiphons and such) with hymns and songs (both the acceptable sacred hymns and the unacceptable non-sacred anthropocentric songs) means that we miss out on the fullness of the liturgical texts. doesn't matter if it's teens or adults, they all deserve to participate in the scripturally deep texts of the antiphons as they flow throughout the liturgical cycle. we're missing something here that robs us of the type of liturgical depth that Eastern Liturgies have (they still chant their antiphons, not replace them), and that the Extraordinary Form has (hymns may be sung in addition to the chanting or reciting of the propers, not in place of them as the ordinary form GIRM no. 48 option 4 allows... I argue that we should return to the Extraordinary Form practice of always using all of the mass propers, with hymns sung in addition to them and not in place of them).

chant it with me (protest chant, not sacred chant): "Down with, option 4! " "Option 4, no more!" "Propers more not option 4! "

[i]even [/i]Msgr Bugnini, my liturgical arch-nemesis, argued that we should maintain the use of the propers. You're about to see probably the only thing I will ever quote from Bugnini in defense of a liturgical opinion that I hold:

"That [b]rule [permitting vernacular hymns] has been superseded[/b]. What [b]must[/b] be sung is the Mass, its Ordinary and Proper, not "something", no matter how consistent, that is [b]imposed[/b] on the Mass. Because the liturgical service [b]is one[/b], it has only one countenance, one motif, [b]one voice, the voice of the Church[/b]. To continue to [b]replace the texts of the Mass[/b] being celebrated with motets that are reverent and devout, yet out of keeping with the Mass of the day amounts to [b]continuing an unacceptable ambiguity[/b]: it is to [b]cheat the people[/b]. Liturgical song involves not mere melody, but words, text, thought and the sentiments that the poetry and music contain. Thus texts must be those of the Mass, not others, and singing means singing the Mass [b]not just singing during Mass[/b]." -Msgr. Bugnini, response from the Consilium in 1969

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Byzantine' timestamp='1344475398' post='2464768']
At Byzantine youth prayer services we don't use modern music. But there is lots of incense
[/quote]

I love incense. My parish never uses it. I need to visit a Byzantine Rite Mass sometime if there is a lot of incense.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1344892037' post='2467119']
haven't read every post, so sorry if this has already been said better: the biggest issue in sacred music for me is the fact that songs and hymns have totally displaced the propers of the liturgy.
[/quote]
Not sure how I feel about all of this. Part of me would like the propers back, and part of me wonders if we haven't organically developed past them.
But, it's not my decision, and both are allowed anyway, so I don't give too much thought to it.

[Ice_nine]

the organ and piano seem like the same beaver dam instrument to me btw. I know there's a different sound, is that what makes the piano frivolous? WHat about the sound. Jus currious

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1344894761' post='2467136']
the organ and piano seem like the same beaver dam instrument to me btw. I know there's a different sound, is that what makes the piano frivolous? WHat about the sound. Jus currious
[/quote]
You can't be serious.

[Vincent Vega]

The piano and organ are the same instrument in the same way that a golf cart is the same as a semi truck, because they both have steering wheels and a gas pedal.

The organ is a sustaining instrument. As long as you depress a key, a sound will be produced. This is the same way that the voice works. The piano, guitar, etc etc are not. The moment you play a note on them, it starts to die. This is why they are not as well suited to congregational singing.

[Aloysius]

"part of me wonders if we haven't organically developed past them"
[img]http://chirho.me/memes/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Russian-Orthodox-Patriarch-Vader_475350_profile.jpg[/img]
organically developping past the propers is like organically developping past the scripture readings, IMO, they are an intregal part of the liturgical cycle. why not allow an option that in place of the encyclical we might read a relevant passage from a Church Father, saint, or theologian?

I must appeal to Bugnini's argument on this one. The propers can certainly be organically developped (they were, of course, reformed with the liturgical calendar, how organically that was done in the cut-and-pasting of the consillium is up for debate), but I cannot abide by an opinion that they should ever be jettisoned or replaced, any more than scripture readings can be jettisoned or replaced (and before you say that it's different because it's the Word of God, remember that much of the basis for the text of the propers is scriptural, they're just another means of praying the Word of God in the Liturgy)

[the171]

Piano is percussion. Organ is not. Same reason why drums don't fit into the liturgy.