Life Teen Mass

[Socrates]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1344410823' post='2464437']
Here we go...
[/quote]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk[/media]

[Byzantine]

At Byzantine youth prayer services we don't use modern music. But there is lots of incense

[Annie12]

All I have to say is that as long as the magesterium allows such music I would say go for it! That said I personally prefer more traditional music during the mass. It helps me focus on the peaceful side of the mass.

[Amppax]

This is tangential (but I think important) but why is[i] [color=#282828][font=Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Tra le Sollecitudini [/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font=Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]usually[/font][/color][i][color=#282828][font=Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font=Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]quoted in this debate and not the Vatican II documents on Sacred Music? I would think that the Vatican II documents are more authoritative, correct? [/font][/color]

I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be an arse portal.

I'll put together a legitimate contribution to this discussion at a later date (hopefully) I've just been wondering about this for a while.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Amppax

[the171]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1344571810' post='2465391']
This is tangential (but I think important) but why is[i] [color=#282828][font=Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Tra le Sollecitudini [/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font=Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]usually[/font][/color][i][color=#282828][font=Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font=Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]quoted in this debate and not the Vatican II documents on Sacred Music? I would think that the Vatican II documents are more authoritative, correct? [/font][/color]

I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be an arse portal.

I'll put together a legitimate contribution to this discussion at a later date (hopefully) I've just been wondering about this for a while.
[/quote]


[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#000000]The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.[/color]
[color=#000000]But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30. (VI. 116-"Sacrosantum Concilium" Vatican II)[/color][/font][/size]

Edited August 10, 2012 by the171

[the171]

[color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]"In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church's ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man's mind to God and to higher things.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font='Times New Roman'][size=1]
[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority, as laid down in Art. 22, 52, 37, and 40. This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful." (VI. 120-"Sacrosanctum Concilium" Vatican II)[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1344478016' post='2464786']
All I have to say is that as long as the magesterium allows such music I would say go for it!
[/quote]
The magesterium doesn't allow such music.
[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1344571810' post='2465391']
This is tangential (but I think important) but why is[i] [color=#282828][font='Segoe UI', ', ', 'Helvetica Neue', ', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif} ']Tra le Sollecitudini [/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font='Segoe UI', ', ', 'Helvetica Neue', ', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif} ']usually[/font][/color][i][color=#282828][font='Segoe UI', ', ', 'Helvetica Neue', ', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif} '] [/font][/color][/i][color=#282828][font='Segoe UI', ', ', 'Helvetica Neue', ', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif} ']quoted in this debate and not the Vatican II documents on Sacred Music? I would think that the Vatican II documents are more authoritative, correct? [/font][/color]

I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be an arse portal.

I'll put together a legitimate contribution to this discussion at a later date (hopefully) I've just been wondering about this for a while.
[/quote]
The quotes from Numberface are good ones, but I like TlS because of its strong wording. Plus, the nice thing about Church documents is just because they're old doesn't mean they're out of date. Unless I am gravely mistaken, and I am often, these kinds of things remain in effect unless they are explicitly overturned, n'est-ce pas?

[the171]

This post had perfect timing.

I mean thread

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1344573789' post='2465401']
[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#000000]The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.[/color]
[color=#000000]But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30. (VI. 116-"Sacrosantum Concilium" Vatican II)[/color][/font][/size]
[/quote]

As in there is an [b]ideal[/b], but if that cannot be achieved then there are other acceptable musical forms for the mass. And when I say 'acceptable', I mean perfectly fine.

I just met with one of my friend's who is in seminary to become a Jesuit and we talked about this very topic. And one of the fruits of that conversation, I will merely posit and say that we(American Catholics) read canonical teaching/law and Church teaching/law through strictly an Anglo mindset(still influenced by the founding puritans/theists). And this perspective is that we hold law to an ideal and you should always be in that ideal, which from my friend's experience/perspective(he holds a bachelors in theology) is not withstanding how Roman law should be seen at all.

[the171]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1344621826' post='2465636']


As in there is an [b]ideal[/b], but if that cannot be achieved then there are other acceptable musical forms for the mass. And when I say 'acceptable', I mean perfectly fine.

I just met with one of my friend's who is in seminary to become a Jesuit and we talked about this very topic. And one of the fruits of that conversation, I will merely posit and say that we(American Catholics) read canonical teaching/law and Church teaching/law through strictly an Anglo mindset(still influenced by the founding puritans/theists). And this perspective is that we hold law to an ideal and you should always be in that ideal, which from my friend's experience/perspective(he holds a bachelors in theology) is not withstanding how Roman law should be seen at all.
[/quote]

Then we once again have to consult Pius X's document on the liturgy.

[Slappo]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1344621826' post='2465636']
As in there is an [b]ideal[/b], but if that cannot be achieved then there are other acceptable musical forms for the mass. And when I say 'acceptable', I mean perfectly fine.
[/quote]

As for instruments, VII specifically stated that it is conditional based on the suitability of the instrument. Tra Le Sollecitudini outlines some instruments that are not suitable. In no way does TLS and Vatican II contradict or override each other.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1344626820' post='2465668']
Then we once again have to consult Pius X's document on the liturgy.
[/quote]

Cause of course that's Law....

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1344629943' post='2465685']
As for instruments, VII specifically stated that it is conditional based on the suitability of the instrument. Tra Le Sollecitudini outlines some instruments that are not suitable. In no way does TLS and Vatican II contradict or override each other.
[/quote]

Ok, and?

[Vincent Vega]

It is really unfortunate when one insists on clinging so obstinately to his error that he is blind even to very plain facts when they are laid out before him.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1344660194' post='2465912']
It is really unfortunate when one insists on clinging so obstinately to his error that he is blind even to very plain facts when they are laid out before him.
[/quote]

I think the crux of my misunderstanding is that I don't see an error in not fulfilling the ideal for liturgical music. Besides that, not following liturgical guidelines or whatever is not even considered a sin.

And all these 'facts' are given over to me and others, who have little background in theology/basic understanding of Catholic liturgical writing and thus must trust what the rest of the 'scholars' on here have to, which (and I shall say bluntly) is extremely one-sided.

[Slappo]

Never mind... not worth continuing. Just go re-read some of the other 30 page threads.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Slappo