Life Teen Mass

[Guest rayala]

Hello friends,

Recently I attended a Life Teen Conference and I must say Life Teen really knows how to speak to the youth. In addition, when it comes to content and bringing teens closer to Christ they are pretty dynamic and faithful to the Magisterium; however, I left the conference a bit confused. Although their content and approach was faithful, their liturgy tended to be over the top and very loud - guitars, drums, Christian songs, etc.

That being said, LT does great work and they take great pride in their Catholic faith, but when it comes to liturgy, I feel as if they are inconsistent with our great musical tradition. I say musical because everything else was on point.

Is there room for those instruments to be played in the sacred liturgy in order to better reach teens? If so, is there way to do it reverently?

Peace,

Ryan

thankgodimcatholic.com

[homeschoolmom]

Here we go...

[Amory]

Maybe (and probably) I'm an aesthetic snob whose friends are all just likeminded young adults, but even my agnostic friends from non-Catholic backgrounds have a great appreciation for the works of classical music written for our liturgy. It seems a shame to use a caricature of rock music for the Mass when some of the greatest pieces of music in human history (various Mass settings by Mozart and Beethoven come to mind) were composed specifically for the Mass.

Perhaps the youth would be just as much (if not even more) drawn to the Mass by music that reflects the great beauty which has sprung forth from the truth of our religion.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Amory

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='rayala' timestamp='1344410198' post='2464434']Although their content and approach was faithful, their liturgy tended to be over the top and very loud - guitars, drums, Christian songs, etc.

That being said, LT does great work and they take great pride in their Catholic faith, but when it comes to liturgy, I feel as if they are inconsistent with our great musical tradition.
[/quote]
Your instincts are correct:
[quote][size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#000000]19. The employment of the piano is forbidden in church, as is also that of noisy or frivolous instruments such as drums, cymbals, bells and the like.[/color]
[color=#000000]20. It is strictly forbidden to have bands play in church, and only in special cases with the consent of the Ordinary will it be permissible to admit wind instruments, limited in number, judiciously used, and proportioned to the size of the placeprovided the composition and accompaniment be written in grave and suitable style, and conform in all respects to that proper to the organ.[/color][/font][/size][/quote]
- Tra le Sollecitudini
Instruction on Sacred Music
Pope St. Pius X, Motu Proprio promulgated on November 22, 1903

For more information:
[url="http://www.adoremus.org/MotuProprio.html"]http://www.adoremus....otuProprio.html[/url]
[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/2003/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_20031203_musica-sacra_en.html"]http://www.vatican.v...a-sacra_en.html[/url]

Edited August 8, 2012 by USAirwaysIHS

[BG45]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1344410823' post='2464437']
Here we go...
[/quote]

My first thought was "Where's the popcorn smilie", but you beat me to it HSM...

Mind if I sit next to you on the aether of the web with my own?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Amory' timestamp='1344412672' post='2464438']
Maybe (and probably) I'm an aesthetic snob whose friends are all just likeminded young adults, but even my agnostic friends from non-Catholic backgrounds have a great appreciation for the works of classical music written for our liturgy. It seems a shame to use a caricature of rock music for the Mass when some of the greatest pieces of music in human history (various Mass settings by Mozart and Beethoven come to mind) were composed specifically for the Mass.

Perhaps the youth would be just as much (if not even more) drawn to the Mass by music that reflects the great beauty which has sprung forth from the truth of our religion.
[/quote]
I don't care much for the Classical (nor the Romantic, which Beethoven straddled the line of), but there are indeed pieces of other-wordly beauty that are hidden away in favor of [i]The Monkees do The Mass. [/i]Issues with Beethoven and Mozarts masses, though, is that they're not easy music, and to be performed well, require instrumentalists of a calibre and number which probably no parish in the US has (or can afford to hire even once a year). Much of the more ancient music, though (like Palestrina), is doable by a fair-to-middling choir if they bother to put in the work.

[MeteorShower]

I attend LifeTeen Mass quite regularly, so I just thought that I would give my two cents.

I recently came back from a Steubenville youth conference, where the music is very loud - much louder than I am used to - but I still like it. It helps me to focus on the lyrics, which helps me to focus on prayer.

On Sunday evenings, I go to a LifeTeen Mass at my parish. The music ministry there often plays contemporary Christian music, but it is not in any way overly loud - they play very reverently. They do, also, make use of some more traditional songs such as the psalms (obviously), or songs sung in Latin. I think it's a lovely mix, personally.

[To Jesus Through Mary]

[img]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/12295_796550249968_13678_n.jpg[/img]

[Amory]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1344444464' post='2464537']
I don't care much for the Classical (nor the Romantic, which Beethoven straddled the line of), but there are indeed pieces of other-wordly beauty that are hidden away in favor of [i]The Monkees do The Mass. [/i]Issues with Beethoven and Mozarts masses, though, is that they're not easy music, and to be performed well, require instrumentalists of a calibre and number which probably no parish in the US has (or can afford to hire even once a year). Much of the more ancient music, though (like Palestrina), is doable by a fair-to-middling choir if they bother to put in the work.
[/quote]

When I said classical music initially, I meant that in the broadest sense of the term--Western art music--rather than in the narrowest sense--Western art music composed in the second half of the 18th century and beginning of the 19th.

You're definitely correct that most parishes can't afford a full orchestra for Mozart's or Beethoven's Mass settings, though there actually are [url="http://cantius.org/uploads/photos/2010-all-souls-requiem/"]parishes[/url] in the United States that manage to get the orchestra such settings annually on special occasions such as Easter and All Souls'. I also have attended Masses that successfully use settings from the Classical period (this time meant strictly) but with organ accompaniment rather than with the originally intended orchestra. Also, some Masses (such as Schubert's in G major) require basically just a few string instruments as accompaniment and thus can be done pretty easily with some preparation in advance.

You're also definitely correct that a capella Mass settings from the the 16th century (such as Vittoria's and Palestrina's) are more doable at the parish level. I probably should have mentioned them in my original post, though (again) I was using "classical" broadly so as to include them even if not explicitly mentioning them. Also, though I like them quite a lot, I am just not as impressed with them as with later settings. They're definitely the highest calibre music a regular parish would use for an average Sunday, though.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Amory' timestamp='1344450216' post='2464581']
When I said classical music initially, I meant that in the broadest sense of the term--Western art music--rather than in the narrowest sense--Western art music composed in the second half of the 18th century and beginning of the 19th.

You're definitely correct that most parishes can't afford a full orchestra for Mozart's or Beethoven's Mass settings, though there actually are [url="http://cantius.org/uploads/photos/2010-all-souls-requiem/"]parishes[/url] in the United States that manage to get the orchestra such settings annually on special occasions such as Easter and All Souls'. I also have attended Masses that successfully use settings from the Classical period (this time meant strictly) but with organ accompaniment rather than with the originally intended orchestra. Also, some Masses (such as Schubert's in G major) require basically just a few string instruments as accompaniment and thus can be done pretty easily with some preparation in advance.

[/quote]
Yes, of course, I misspoke before, and meant to say that many would not be able to afford them even once per year. Certainly there are parishes that could really do it up - I'm sure St. Patrick's, the National Shrine, etc etc could afford full orchestras even multiple times a year.

[Tantum Ergo]

I've heard of LifeTeen's reputation for having Masses with "wild" music and odd practices, but I don't really know details about LifeTeen. I'll just say that I don't agree with turning the Mass into a rock concert.

I don't think that the sensual and emotional overload of a rock concert needs to be mixed with the Mass in order for teens to appreciate it. In fact, I find it terribly condescending. When I was a teen, I was confused why "youth Mass" ALWAYS meant electric guitars, loud vocalists, and drum sets playing bad rock/pop music during Mass. And why did "youth group" ALWAYS include singing or listening to corny Christian pop music? I know some people really enjoy that stuff, and some are very moved by Christian pop, but why were there no options for those youth who didn't care for it? It felt like the adults thought, "Oh they're teens, they all like pop and rock music, and they can't possibly be interested in being Catholic if we don't make it FUN!"

I also think that mixing rock music with the Mass can be dangerous. Sure, it may hook some teens, but the problem is that it's just [i]that,[/i] a hook, and in practice it usually doesn't go any further. When you couple the sacred Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with the emotional high of a rock concert, you could be inadvertently teaching teens that the main reason to go to Mass IS to have fun.

More importantly, we need to teach young people the truths of their Faith. There's no reason to hold onto the Catholic faith if it's not true. Out of my 40 classmates from Catholic school, I only know of TWO who are still practicing. The rest fell away, but probably not because they rejected the Faith exactly. The fact is, they were never taught the truths of the Faith in the first place. How could they reject something they do not know? Of course, they were fed the fun music. But they weren't taught the Faith. Once the fun music disappeared, the semblance of their faith disappeared too. It wasn't fun anymore. Their faith was tested, and it simply couldn't hold up to the world.

And again, I don't understand why all "youth group" events mean loud rock/pop music. I think they unintentionally push away some of the youth who naturally are not satisfied by that. I felt pushed away, and my family is not especially traditional in their music tastes; nobody taught me to feel that way. It was just the way I felt naturally. Lots of teens are looking for something deeper. And some simply have different tastes. We should recognize that not all teens feel spiritually fulfilled by Christian rock music, and I think we need to provide something for them too. They shouldn't feel pushed away because "youth Mass" means something they can't identify with.

[elizabeth09]

Youth Mass at my parish is always drums, and guitars. The last time that I attended, not only I came from work, but I also had a headache. I enjoy the early masses at my parish because there are no clapping, drums and guitars. I can hear the singer for once.

[KnightofChrist]

"All this has happened before. All this will happen again."

[Guest rayala]

Thank you all for your input. I would also like to clear up that it wasn't a rock concert nor did it feel like it. I just want to know if it's compatiable with what our Church teaches on music in the mass....For me, it didn't.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

zip zero zilch! There was once gregorian chant and still is, there was once traditional organ hymns and still is, and there was modern hymns with instruments and still is. Is reverance being super quiet all the time, even sheep bleet loudly sometimes. Are you concerned that some or all the songs where possibly protestant praise and worship songs, than rally for more modern catholic praise and worship music (support the artists that already exist firstly.) Another bit i recognised in you post is saying christian friends like classical catholic hymns(or words to that effect), why are you not a christian, catholic is christian too, christian simply means follower of christ.