Impediments To Religious Life

[BarbTherese]

I also suffer Bipolar Disorder. It took me quite a while, years, to recognize that in my instance rather than regard Bipolar in a negative light preventing me from entering religious life, I began to look on it in a positive light as a boundary permitted by God precluding certain choices and "Abandonment to Divine Providence" by Jean Pierre de Caussade led me down this latter road. I also began to question whether I had a religious vocation from God, or was it something that I personally wanted. I then began to examine and ponder why I wanted to enter religious life - what were my motivations and my initial conclusion was that I wanted to give my all and my very best to The Lord. The way my life began to unfold, I came to recognize that I could still give my all and my very best but not quite in the way I had been thinking. I also began to realize that because of the way religious life is presented, I had come to think of it as the only way I could give myself fully to God. My question then became, am I denied this total giving? I also began to realize that I could embrace the whole of my life and as entirely positive, not just that part of me that was 'the well part' as the only valuable and valid part - and was this what God was calling me to express and embrace?
Sound spiritual direction took me the rest of the way and to a full embrace of my life and situation, circumstances, as they were - and not as something unjust and unfair, willy nilly impediments, that had occured but rather as acts of The Permissive Will of God as allowing boundaries in my life and in His Permissive Will as something good and positive. Just as a person desiring to enter religious life has been gifted by God the necessary qualities, so to me He had, at that time, allowed them not to exist as indications for me of where He was not calling and inviting me. Many questions and answers flowed from there as I wrestled to internalize answers to my questions.
I developed a 'philosophy' for myself "no negative without a corresponding positive, as no positive without a corresponding negative". As my life continued to unfold and when negatives occured, I looked further to find the positive and found it, embracing it. Just as when something positive occured, I found the negative with which I needed to wrestle to [i]fully[/i] embrace the positive and as gift.

In embracing the whole of my life, I still fought against Bipolar recognizing that this struggle and fight may be the very good that The Lord intended through permitting the illness in the first place. My medical prognosis was no indication of any sort of hope of victory. Remarkably about ten years ago, and very suddenly indeed I was in control of Bipolar in the main rather than it being in control of me and against all medical prediction for my future and this prediction was very gloomy indicating I would be in the revolving door of a psychiatric ward for the rest of my life and in a psychotic state. Bipolar, I know and embrace, will be a factor probably for the rest of my life and staying in control of the illness asks that I abide by certain 'terms and conditions' that I readily embrace as indications of God's Will for me and my life and what my psychiatrist has to say asks a certain disposition of heartfelt obedience from me, almost as binding as that of my spiritual director. My spiritual director recognizes this also and my doctor and SD work together (though my psychiatrist is an athiest who spends considerable time asking me questions about Catholicism and who readily concedes that my Faith is an inner strength). I think that there is a certain and unique spirituality applying very often to those who do suffer some form of mental illness. The mistake we can make is adopting a spirituality that is not condusive to sound mental health - at least in those God has permitted that it not exist in its fullest and most common expression.

Nowadays, there are probably far more opportunities for those who may suffer some form of mental illness to enter religious life - especially with remarkable advances in medication and therapy and the understanding of mental illness itself. However, The Lord situated me in a certain time in my own life when these advances had not yet occured and were for a point further in the future. In my day, mental illness was still quite overtly and unashamedly regarded as indication of psychological weakness and even indications of a person spiritually reprobate. As science normally travels, the forward thrust of psychiatry and psychology is remarkable - and still on the move in a forward direction.

Edited August 7, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='dymphnamaria' timestamp='1344256034' post='2463402']
Anyone here who have impediments to be in the religious life? I have this long desire to become a nun but my history of depression impedes me to be in this kind of life. Until i was diagnosed a bipolar. A priest once told me to stop searching for communities because i don't have vocation in religious life. I know most of the communities will really turn you down if they knew that the candidate is not mentally healthy. But what if i was just being misdiagnosed? Will i just let this thing hinder me to enter convent?I am actually planning to have a second opinion on being a bipolar. Please pray for me as I pray for your vocations.

St. Dymphna, pray for us..
[/quote]

The 'unhinging' and negative factor about being refused anything at all in life, including an application to religious life for those suffering MI, can be the way one is refused and not so much the actual refusal. It can leave one with a real blow to self confidence and self esteem - or perhaps worse, being condescended to and patronized and just as personally destructive.
Will keep you in prayer that the bipolar condition may prove to be an inaccurate diagnosis and that your desire to enter religious life will be fulfilled. All as God may will. From experience I know that as long as one's desire is for The Lord and His Will, fulfillment and desires will occur and fully and absolutely, if not precisely as one anticipated at some point in one's journey. May The Holy Spirit be your light, guide and inspiriation.

Edited August 7, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='filius_angelorum' timestamp='1344300479' post='2463677']
Ok, but there is an important conditional statement in my original post. "If you have a regular spiritual director..." By "regular spiritual director", I did not mean a priest to whom you go on a semi-regular basis for spiritual advice (which we should all do), but a priest who is your confessor, director, and guide and has either been assigned to you by your community or you have gone to for a long time. Nor did I suggest that you were under an obligation of obedience to your spiritual director in the normal sense, because you can always find another spiritual director, but that, as long as you accept a particular priest for a spiritual director, you should follow his lead in all spiritual matters, precisely because he stands in the place of Christ. Under a vow of obedience you could not change directors, but you may always switch directors as long as you are free to do so.

But this is precisely why it is so important to have a regular spiritual director. Obedience is not just for religious, and until we put our lives into the hands of a true superior, we will always be tempted to act without due reverence to Divine Providence. I admit that I have almost never had a spiritual director, so I am just as guilty as any.

I think this would be a good time, dymphnamaria, to find just such a regular spiritual director, perhaps a chaplain of the order which you wish to join, and leave everything in his hands.
[/quote]

I had a weird experience in the years that I searched for a priest spiritual director. I was still very ill and very often. Every approach of mine was declined and I do suspect because of I suffered bipolar and was a woman living alone under private vows. One priest I approached must have had a rough night as he drifted off to sleep (or my conversation put him to sleep!). Not knowing what to do, whether to wake him, or just continue. I decided to just continue. Finally he awoke very suddenly and said to me "Imitate Mary in Nazareth" and that concluded our appointment. I guess as I left, I was angry that he had fallen asleep and felt probably patronized and condescended to in the content of our appointment. But "Imitate Mary in Nazareth" kept coming back to mind and with me angry about the advice I daresay (memory not good!). Then probably months later, it all began to fall into place about the life Our Lady probably did live in Nazareth - a very ordinary type of life at least on the surface and this all tied in with my Confirmation patron and loved patron, St Therese of Lisieux.

And so advice that I had intitally taken as something to say for the sake of something to say, turned out to have a profound influence on my life and I was able to see a real connection between two people I dearly love - Our Lady and St Therese - both of whom point to Jesus and in discipleship of Jesus.

This in its turn led to something else. Our priests are ordained to preach The Gospel and so our homilies are inspired, I had read somewhere or other. I began to learn to listen to these homilies and for something that The Holy Spirit may have to say to me. Even in what struck me as uninspired homilies at Mass. Most always something speaks and if nothing does, then it is an invitation to me to return to the Gospel and the homily until something does.

I said to a contemplative nun friend of mine "I think our priests are very charismatic"
She said "They are, dear - and isn't it wonderful!"
I replied "No, I think it is most unfair!" LOL At that point, I was still struggling to be detached from a desire to enter religious life! Detached in the sense that it was devoid, in the main, of personal investment of one kind or another. Altho back then, I had no concept whatsoever of where I was in my journey. None! Hindisight can be a great gift (and sometimes a real burden).

[emmaberry]

Just wanted to say "yes" to those who pointed out that you can have a bad Spiritual Director. I have posted this on PM before, but the school chaplain whom I was referred to for SD did not encourage me to become a nun, or to leave school.

Sometimes, inexperienced or not-properly-trained SD's are not really looking for God's Will in a situation, but what is practical. This problem always came up with me and SDs. Of course, I appreciate them looking for the practical, because they were genuinely concerned for me, but as we know, God's plan (especially for those with a religious vocation) is not as practical as we often would like it to be.

Make an effort to get an SD, but remember that he is not God, and your relationship with your SD is not a substitute for your relationship with God, which should be strengthened through prayer and the sacraments.

I am praying for your discernment. As many have stated, an impediment narrows down the communities you can enter, which is kind of a blessing. Not trying to minimize the hardship though, as this must be very difficult for you.

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[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1344300484' post='2463678']
I developed a 'philosophy' for myself "no negative without a corresponding positive, as no positive without a corresponding negative".[/quote]
This reminds me so much of something CS Lewis says in [i]The Great Divorce[/i]..beautiful!
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Edited August 7, 2012 by emmaberry

[dymphnamaria]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1344274380' post='2463502']
How I sympathize with you! I have had a diagnosis of depression since 1999 when I was 16 years old. The catalyst was the death of a young boy that I had a crush on for several years. I had never dealt with death before. Now, it's clear to me that all the signs of depression were there before this incident took place, but sometimes it takes a major event for the diagnosis to be made.

I have been discerning religious life ever since I made my reversion to the faith in 2007. I have discerned with 3 orders before the order I am discerning with now and the Carmelites and RSMs told me that my depression would not be a factor in whether or not I was able to apply if my depression was well controlled by medication and I could live the life normally.

The order I am discerning with at this point is from Europe and they have 3 convents in the USA. My pastor worked with our Bishop and Mother General to bring them to our parish -- which will hopefully take place in August 2013. I got up the courage to talk with one of the Sisters when they visited this last February. I told Father of my interest and he introduced me to the Provincial Superior for the USA when she made an impromtu visit because my mom and I happened to be in the parking lot. She told me if I could pass the psychological evaluation and prove that I was sound of mind with my medication that they would allow me to try the life. I just finished the evaluation on July 28th and should be getting the results within the next week or so!

If I could impart anything of knowledge that I found valuable in my own discernment, it would be to follow your heart. Don't discern with an order simply because they will accept you with your mental illness. There are orders out there that will discern each case individually, so you never know what they might say. If you feel any attraction to the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus or the Religious Sisters of Mercy of Alma, they both will allow people with mental illness, but you have to be called there.

Also, if you haven't already, I would urge you to find a Catholic therapist. Mine has been invaluable and has helped me with coping skills that will be very important in religious life. They help you find the balance you will need and I have matured greatly over the past year that I have been seeing mine.

God bless you!
[/quote][quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1344274380' post='2463502']
How I sympathize with you! I have had a diagnosis of depression since 1999 when I was 16 years old. The catalyst was the death of a young boy that I had a crush on for several years. I had never dealt with death before. Now, it's clear to me that all the signs of depression were there before this incident took place, but sometimes it takes a major event for the diagnosis to be made.

I have been discerning religious life ever since I made my reversion to the faith in 2007. I have discerned with 3 orders before the order I am discerning with now and the Carmelites and RSMs told me that my depression would not be a factor in whether or not I was able to apply if my depression was well controlled by medication and I could live the life normally.

The order I am discerning with at this point is from Europe and they have 3 convents in the USA. My pastor worked with our Bishop and Mother General to bring them to our parish -- which will hopefully take place in August 2013. I got up the courage to talk with one of the Sisters when they visited this last February. I told Father of my interest and he introduced me to the Provincial Superior for the USA when she made an impromtu visit because my mom and I happened to be in the parking lot. She told me if I could pass the psychological evaluation and prove that I was sound of mind with my medication that they would allow me to try the life. I just finished the evaluation on July 28th and should be getting the results within the next week or so!

If I could impart anything of knowledge that I found valuable in my own discernment, it would be to follow your heart. Don't discern with an order simply because they will accept you with your mental illness. There are orders out there that will discern each case individually, so you never know what they might say. If you feel any attraction to the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus or the Religious Sisters of Mercy of Alma, they both will allow people with mental illness, but you have to be called there.

Also, if you haven't already, I would urge you to find a Catholic therapist. Mine has been invaluable and has helped me with coping skills that will be very important in religious life. They help you find the balance you will need and I have matured greatly over the past year that I have been seeing mine.

God bless you!
[/quote]


Thank you for your words and I am happy to know that you still continue to discern to be in religious life. I will pray for your vocation.

God bless you too!

Edited August 7, 2012 by dymphnamaria

[dymphnamaria]

double post.. sorry

[dymphnamaria]

[quote name='filius_angelorum' timestamp='1344300479' post='2463677']

But this is precisely why it is so important to have a regular spiritual director. Obedience is not just for religious, and until we put our lives into the hands of a true superior, we will always be tempted to act without due reverence to Divine Providence. I admit that I have almost never had a spiritual director, so I am just as guilty as any.

I think this would be a good time, dymphnamaria, to find just such a regular spiritual director, perhaps a chaplain of the order which you wish to join, and leave everything in his hands.
[/quote]


Not just a regular spiritual director but a holy priest that could guide us. I hope we could find priest who is a holy as Padre Pio. Our priest really needs our prayer and we must pray for them.

[dymphnamaria]

[quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1344269666' post='2463469']
Hi, I don't think this should be a problem, as others have said it is a case of finding a community who are willing to accept you. They are out there......

The main question is if you are well controlled on medication.


[/quote]

I am actually no longer into medication for almost 3yrs now. I agree with you that this shouldn't be a problem but most of the communities make this a problem and a hindrance to the vocation in entering the convent.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='dymphnamaria' timestamp='1344315516' post='2463876']
Thank you for your words and I am happy to know that you still continue to discern to be in religious life. I will pray for your vocation.

God bless you too!
[/quote]

Thank you for your prayers! I could use them because I am trying very hard to keep my patience as I wait for the test results. I am putting my trust in Him and have been feeling really optimistic lately that something wonderful is going to happen very soon. I am in awe of His kindness and mercy.

[quote name='dymphnamaria' timestamp='1344318910' post='2463891']
I am actually no longer into medication for almost 3yrs now. I agree with you that this shouldn't be a problem but most of the communities make this a problem and a hindrance to the vocation in entering the convent.
[/quote]

This actually works very well in your favor if your condition is stable without medication. I have talked to active/contemplative communities and many say that you have to be off your medication for at least a year before you can discern with them. Let me know if you would like some help researching orders.

[dymphnamaria]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1344302125' post='2463703']
The 'unhinging' and negative factor about being refused anything at all in life, including an application to religious life for those suffering MI, can be the way one is refused and not so much the actual refusal. It can leave one with a real blow to self confidence and self esteem - or perhaps worse, being condescended to and patronized and just as personally destructive.
Will keep you in prayer that the bipolar condition may prove to be an inaccurate diagnosis and that your desire to enter religious life will be fulfilled. All as God may will. From experience I know that as long as one's desire is for The Lord and His Will, fulfillment and desires will occur and fully and absolutely, if not precisely as one anticipated at some point in one's journey. May The Holy Spirit be your light, guide and inspiriation.
[/quote][quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1344302125' post='2463703']
The 'unhinging' and negative factor about being refused anything at all in life, including an application to religious life for those suffering MI, can be the way one is refused and not so much the actual refusal. It can leave one with a real blow to self confidence and self esteem - or perhaps worse, being condescended to and patronized and just as personally destructive.
Will keep you in prayer that the bipolar condition may prove to be an inaccurate diagnosis and that your desire to enter religious life will be fulfilled. All as God may will. From experience I know that as long as one's desire is for The Lord and His Will, fulfillment and desires will occur and fully and absolutely, if not precisely as one anticipated at some point in one's journey. May The Holy Spirit be your light, guide and inspiriation.
[/quote]


Thank you BarbaraTherese for sharing your insights and experiences. And mostly your prayers,which I really need now. I'm praying that this condition was just a misdiagnosis and my desire is not contrary to the will of God. Let us continue to pray and ask for Mama Mary's guidance.

May the Virgin Mary bless us with her Holy Child..

Edited August 7, 2012 by dymphnamaria

[Indwelling Trinity]

[quote name='dymphnamaria' timestamp='1344256034' post='2463402']
Anyone here who have impediments to be in the religious life? I have this long desire to become a nun but my history of depression impedes me to be in this kind of life. Until i was diagnosed a bipolar. A priest once told me to stop searching for communities because i don't have vocation in religious life. I know most of the communities will really turn you down if they knew that the candidate is not mentally healthy. But what if i was just being misdiagnosed? Will i just let this thing hinder me to enter convent?I am actually planning to have a second opinion on being a bipolar. Please pray for me as I pray for your vocations.

St. Dymphna, pray for us..
[/quote]

What used to be an absolute impediment years ago before the advent of specific medications to treat things such as depression may not be so absolute now. I know a number of sister thriving in religious life , finally professed who entered on medications for depression and even episodes of psychosis.

I think more important is the openness knowledge of the community as well as whether ones condition can be managed in such a way as to make it possible to live ones life in a community productively.

My prayers for your discernment.

[dymphnamaria]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1344311013' post='2463818']
Just wanted to say "yes" to those who pointed out that you can have a bad Spiritual Director. I have posted this on PM before, but the school chaplain whom I was referred to for SD did not encourage me to become a nun, or to leave school.

Sometimes, inexperienced or not-properly-trained SD's are not really looking for God's Will in a situation, but what is practical. This problem always came up with me and SDs. Of course, I appreciate them looking for the practical, because they were genuinely concerned for me, but as we know, God's plan (especially for those with a religious vocation) is not as practical as we often would like it to be.

Make an effort to get an SD, but remember that he is not God, and your relationship with your SD is not a substitute for your relationship with God, which should be strengthened through prayer and the sacraments.

I am praying for your discernment. As many have stated, an impediment narrows down the communities you can enter, which is kind of a blessing. Not trying to minimize the hardship though, as this must be very difficult for you.


[/quote]


Thank you for your words of encouragement. Yes, they are actually some bad Spiritual Director, and for me,hose SD's are not inspired by the Holy Spirit but just look on the practical side of the situation as you had stated. And the grace of God is much higher. How wonderful would it be to have holy priests and we must pray for them.

[dymphnamaria]

MaterMisericordiae,let us ask for that grace to be patient and be faithful to Him. God is so merciful and He works very mysteriously. Let us remember that He didn't call the qualified, but He qualifies the called.

I am really thankful that my condition has been stable w/o medication. I would be glad if you could help me with those communities.
But I hope i would love their spirituality and if i am really for that certain community.

[Strictlyinkblot]

You have a heavy cross to carry. I don't have any advice to offer but I'll pray for you. Are you interested in active or contemplative orders? The Visitation nuns were founded for women who were not physically able for life in other orders. It may be worth checking them out if you're interested in a more contemplative life.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Strictlyinkblot' timestamp='1344326800' post='2463921']
You have a heavy cross to carry. I don't have any advice to offer but I'll pray for you. Are you interested in active or contemplative orders? The Visitation nuns were founded for women who were not physically able for life in other orders. It may be worth checking them out if you're interested in a more contemplative life.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, the Visitation communities are not open to those with mental health conditions. I wrote all of them in the United States because I was attracted to the contemplative Salesian spirituality. All of them wrote back that they require excellent mental health.