Engagement-wedding....does My Friend Have A Point

[hotpink]

Ok. I'm a guy.

Yes I know my name is hot pink and no I'm not gay. It's an inside joke from my freshman year and the last sheets left at the bookstore cause you got to buy these special sheets for the dorm beds but anyway.

I know that we're less emotinal blah de blah de blah.

And this is truly my friend and not me. She's all wigging out and I told her she's nuts which was apparently not the answer she was looking for.

She's someone I became good friends with while researching Catholocism for College years back. She's Catholic and does the whole "no sex before marriage" not living together deal. She's been dating this guy for oh I don't know like a year or more and they've talked about marriage.

He's a normal guy..you know...not jumping into things.

She's "in waiting" for an engagement ring.

But she really seems to hate all the traditional marriage stuff.

-She hates the idea of asking for her father's blessing. She's not that close with her family though they're all "good people" and finds it arcaic and insulting. He said it's a blessing and not permission. She is going to "allow" him to since it means so much to him but to me she's told me just how stupid she thinks it is.
-She loves surprizes but said that engagement shouldn't be a surprize. No decision ever should be. I kinda agree with this. But she's pulling some serious feminatzi croutons.
-She thinks the actual getting of a ring is also arcaic and that if she's going to wear one he should too. She asked for the cheapest ring she saw because she dosn't think highly of the tradition. I think she'll regret this.
-For a Catholic she dosn't seem to really value your whole Mass thing. She thinks its ridiculous to get all dressed up. I thought getting dressed up was manditory but apparently that's for like Baptists and Catholics women can wear pantaloons to church and stuff/
-She dosn't want a reception. She thinks that it's a waste of time to be in front of people even if it's only a few (her boyfriend and her want to keep the guest list to 30...parents, grandparents, sibs only plus a friend or two each). Her boyfriend has some idea but through hints so likely no idea.

She's 25 and I told her maybe if she dosn't like all this stuff she's too immature to get married. Thaaaat didn't go over well.


HEEELPPPP!

Catholics lend me your thoughts.

[Luigi]

She sounds incredibly sensible to me.

The vast majority of wedding traditions are completely senseless:

Popping the question - I agree with her. If two people are going to make a major life-changing decision, they should both be in on the discussion. The surprise factor accomplishes nothing.


What's the average cost of a wedding these days - $25,000? I'd support that kind of expense if it guaranteed there'd be no divorce... but of course, it doesn't.


The Engagement Ring - in the old days, guys who were looking for potential mates could look at a woman's finger and figure out (without having to ask any direct questions - God forbid! - whether she was in the market or not. The world has changed a great deal since the old days.

The Wedding Band - The simpler, the better, if you ask me. I've known lots of people who had nothing at all when they got married; they bought the simplest ring they could afford. They've been wearing them for 40, 50, 60 years now - and the bands mean more because they represent a lifetime of commitment rather than an investment.

The Wedding Dress - of all the useless wedding traditions I can think of, this is the most useless. Spend $3000 on a dress that you'll wear once. Perfectly ridiculous. Especially if you're in college, or saving for a down payment on a house, or anticipate having children. Renting the dress is only slightly better. A wedding is a commitment, not a Disney movie nor a photo opportunity (although there will be photos). The wedding ceremony (including Mass, which they will probably have) and the vows are still valid, whether one is wearing a designer gown or something nice from one's own closet.

The Reception - She'll have to have a reception. A wedding is more than a commitment between two people. It's also the blending - or at least the connection - of two families and two sets of friends. The families and friends will want to wish the young couple well. But the reception doesn't have to be a knock-down-drag-out event. Time to socialize, some munchables, some potables - that's all you need.

If your friend doesn't want this sensible young woman, ask him if he'd introduce her to me!

[arfink]

As a guy I am fairly sure I won't be given a whole lot of say in such things, but if I get married I'd like to keep things on the cheap.

I also am pretty sure I don't like the idea of waiting to "pop the question," so much as having a continuous discussion while dating. Obviously there would come a point where you just have to make the decision and it should be special, but making it a surprise seems odd to me.

As for rings, I think it would be razzle dazzle to make them.

[CatherineM]

I asked for a $30 engagement ring and made our wedding rings. Our first wedding had about two dozen people and our church blessing had about half a dozen people. I always stressed to my clients to spend more time planning for the marriage, and less time planning for the wedding.

[Vincent Vega]

Interesting. Might be better for her to ask these sorts of things herself, because - and I mean none of this to come off as inhospitable - it doesn't seem like you're big into the whole religion thing, so some of the subtler nuance of answers you get here may be lost in translation from you to her.

[Spem in alium]

Your friend does sound very sensible. Things are expensive these days, so it makes sense not to spend more than she has to. Getting married is such a big deal and so I don't think engagement should ever really be a surprise. Dating leads to marriage, so if a couple is in a serious relationship I think they should definitely be speaking about marriage. What matters most is that the two people are getting married for the right reasons.

Personally I love all the "archaic" stuff like blessings, but I can understand why others wouldn't.

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1344227994' post='2463325']
As for rings, I think it would be razzle dazzle to make them.
[/quote]

Ditto!

[Aloysius]

I think the surprise of popping the question isn't necessarily all that bad. obviously there should be a continuing discussion over the course of the relationship about the issue, the real decision should actually already be made by the time the question gets popped. ie, you've both discussed it, and both decided you'd be ready, but you're not engaged until you pop the question. in some ways it's a question you should already know the answer to based on your previous discussions, but it also should basically be one last chance to change her mind and opt-out by saying no, so there should still be the nervousness of whether she'll say yes or no.

I think we run the risk of getting too sensible and calculating about things and losing the magic a little bit. I definitely agree about being sensible regarding financials and all that, the cost of weddings these days are ridiculous. not saying you absolutely have to do the surprise proposal thing, but I don't think it needs to be dismissed so much.

[Groo the Wanderer]

tis stupid to start the rest of your life together $10k-20k in debt from the wedding.

[fierce]

[quote name='hotpink' timestamp='1344224501' post='2463300']
Ok. I'm a guy.

Yes I know my name is hot pink and no I'm not gay. It's an inside joke from my freshman year and the last sheets left at the bookstore cause you got to buy these special sheets for the dorm beds but anyway.

I know that we're less emotinal blah de blah de blah.

And this is truly my friend and not me. She's all wigging out and I told her she's nuts which was apparently not the answer she was looking for.

She's someone I became good friends with while researching Catholocism for College years back. She's Catholic and does the whole "no sex before marriage" not living together deal. She's been dating this guy for oh I don't know like a year or more and they've talked about marriage.

He's a normal guy..you know...not jumping into things.

She's "in waiting" for an engagement ring.

But she really seems to hate all the traditional marriage stuff.

-She hates the idea of asking for her father's blessing. She's not that close with her family though they're all "good people" and finds it arcaic and insulting. He said it's a blessing and not permission. She is going to "allow" him to since it means so much to him but to me she's told me just how stupid she thinks it is.

-She loves surprizes but said that engagement shouldn't be a surprize. No decision ever should be. I kinda agree with this. But she's pulling some serious feminatzi croutons.

-She thinks the actual getting of a ring is also arcaic and that if she's going to wear one he should too. She asked for the cheapest ring she saw because she dosn't think highly of the tradition. I think she'll regret this.

-For a Catholic she dosn't seem to really value your whole Mass thing. She thinks its ridiculous to get all dressed up. I thought getting dressed up was manditory but apparently that's for like Baptists and Catholics women can wear pantaloons to church and stuff

-She dosn't want a reception. She thinks that it's a waste of time to be in front of people even if it's only a few (her boyfriend and her want to keep the guest list to 30...parents, grandparents, sibs only plus a friend or two each). Her boyfriend has some idea but through hints so likely no idea.

She's 25 and I told her maybe if she dosn't like all this stuff she's too immature to get married. Thaaaat didn't go over well.


HEEELPPPP!

Catholics lend me your thoughts.
[/quote]
First: It would be okay if you [i]were[/i] gay.

Second: Your friend doesn't sound too immature for marriage.

Third: It doesn't sound like any of this is really a huge deal. If I were in your shoes, I would support her.

[sixpence]

meh... my impression of this whole thing was kinda negative. If the guy involved wants some things a little more traditional, I don't think she should be freaking out so so much. If she wants to be all "progressive/non-traditional" maybe the guy should actually get some say in the wedding. (that's totally non-traditional!!!!) If its the mom or someone else who wants all this stuff then that's a different matter.

While I don't think you need to spend a pile of money on a wedding dress, it is a one time sacrament kind of deal, and I think you should dress at least as nice as if you were going to a formal dinner or something like that unless you absolutely can't afford it. And I think it is important to have a reception. The families (hopefully) won't be chatting it up during the service so they need some time to celebrate and talk etc!!

Edited August 6, 2012 by sixpence

[elizabeth09]

Sound like your friend does not want to start her married life in debt, which is a good thing.

[Ice_nine]

your friend is amesome

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

I will answer a few of these from my point of view as a young woman.

Wedding dress - Spending like $3,000+ dollars on a dress is ridiculous, even $2,000 or $1,500. You don't have to get your dress from Kleinfeld or Bridal by Lori. You can get a beautiful dress for $150 or $200 and I've always thought that wearing a family heirloom wedding dress was a really razzle dazzle idea. So some could even have NO price!

Surprise Engagement - There should definitely be a mutual discussion and decision on getting married. But I think it's really razzle dazzle if the bride doesn't know WHEN he'll pop the question, and I think it's special that way. But there should definitely be talk of marriage before the proposal. So, not a surprise exactly, but at least for it to be special in that way.

Reception - She'll have to have a reception. It doesn't have to be big an extravagant or take away from the ceremony or anything, but it's expected.

Father's permission - I know it's different with other people's families and situations. But in my case, my dad would approve of the guy before I even DATED him, meaning that he would approve him as a candidate for marriage, and I think I would like it if he asked my dad if he could marry me. I think it's sweet. But any guy I would date would have to be okay with my dad anyway.

The Ring - I HAVE NO CLUE. I don't really have an opinion other than that I think that I would like it if both me and my future husband wore wedding rings. I don't think the groom has to have an engagement ring though, it sounds kind of strange. Oh, and they don't have to be expensive! Again, you can get engagement rings/ wedding rings on the cheap. My mom had a set. Her wedding ring was a band that connected to her engagement ring. Now she has an anniversary band that my dad got her on their 10 year anniversary, I think. I, personally, would like to be surprised with the engagement ring, don't care how expensive it is. Okay, so I guess I did have an opinion.

Prayers for this young couple.

[Lil Red]

re: the Mass

you can have a ceremony without the Mass (that's what my husband & I did). but if both are Catholic, why not have the ceremony within Mass? It's very moving & beautiful within Mass.

[brianthephysicist]

Nuthin wrong with guys that like pink.