Guest AloysiusGhost Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='theculturewarrior' date='May 20 2004, 04:38 PM'] The Catholic Church teaches that objective Truth can be known with reason. [/quote] yeah, i already said that and there i was just explaining their position and then why i thought it was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='Katholikos' date='May 20 2004, 04:52 PM'] You can read the CCC or look up a subject here: [url="http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/"]http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/[/url] [/quote] I couldn't find it, but does the catechism make reference to the 'treasury of merit' or 'treasury of grace'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='AloysiusGhost' date='May 20 2004, 07:00 PM'] so you haveta be a history scholar and a greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic language and greek and hebrew culture scholar.... as opposed to submitting to the Apostolic Authority that continues to explain and explain things to its members. [/quote] Just like you have a Catechism, there are many resources available to help evangelicals study through the bible. Good study guides don't tell anyone what to believe but instead present the information and then show the views so you can try to figure it out for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AloysiusGhost Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 wouldn't it make more sense that a Personal God would leave us with something authoritative so we don't havta rely on our own clouded intellects to figure it out ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='Circle_Master' date='May 20 2004, 06:09 PM'] Just like you have a Catechism, there are many resources available to help evangelicals study through the bible. Good study guides don't tell anyone what to believe but instead present the information and then show the views so you can try to figure it out for yourself. [/quote] So, it comes down to Evangelicals trusting their historical/theological sources, and Catholic trusting their historical/theological sources---which basically comes down to the question of: Who has the more reliable historical/theological sources? Which basically then turns into a circle argument, Circle Master. Hardly the system that would bring me closer to Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 They may be in existance, but personally I don't see an emphasis in the Catholic Church on ancient near-east philology and archaeology like evangelical's do. In the Catholic Church I see an emphasis on the writings of the Church Fathers, and an emphasis on it's own writings beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='Circle_Master' date='May 20 2004, 06:33 PM'] They may be in existance, but personally I don't see an emphasis in the Catholic Church on ancient near-east philology and archaeology like evangelical's do. In the Catholic Church I see an emphasis on the writings of the Church Fathers, and an emphasis on it's own writings beyond that. [/quote] Not to intrude is your point that you don't think the Catholic Church has historical information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 They certainly have some, but unfortunately history can never be fact. That is why there is diversity within evangelical ranks. (along with human nature pervading opinions as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='Circle_Master' date='May 20 2004, 06:43 PM']They certainly have some, but unfortunately history can never be fact. That is why there is diversity within evangelical ranks. (along with human nature pervading opinions as well)[/quote] If I am understand correctly which I might not be, is this: You are saying there is a problem because not all historical events of the world cannot be centered in Sacred Scripture. IF I understand this right, which again I might not be, my reply would be is that Scripture and the Tradition go together. Now Sacred Scripture has to be read in the four senses 1 being the literal leading to the historical events in Sacred Scripture. Then there a 3 spiritual senses that follow the first, Allergorical, Tropological or moral, Anagogical. So Sacred Scripture if far more deeper than just a history book, it goes beyond and then some. Did I misunderstand? Pax Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Circle_Master' date='May 20 2004, 06:09 PM']Just like you have a Catechism, there are many resources available to help evangelicals study through the bible. Good study guides don't tell anyone what to believe but instead present the information and then show the views so you can try to figure it out for yourself.[/quote] Hmmmmm. God slams a book down in front of us and says "here's everything you need to know about your salvation. Now, each one of you, figure it out for yourself." Be glad you were not among the 90% of the world's citizens that was illiterate when Jesus walked the earth. Illiteracy remained the norm until quite recently, even in the U.S. Be glad that you are fortunate enough not to be among the 50% of the world that is still illiterate -- or the 20% of Americans who are illiterate -- right now, in the 21st century, because heaven, dontchaknow chilluns, is reserved for those who can read. Edited May 21, 2004 by Katholikos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Circle_Master' date='May 20 2004, 06:33 PM'] They may be in existance, but personally I don't see an emphasis in the Catholic Church on ancient near-east philology and archaeology like evangelical's do. In the Catholic Church I see an emphasis on the writings of the Church Fathers, and an emphasis on it's own writings beyond that. [/quote] You mean its own writings, such as the New Testament? Edited May 21, 2004 by Katholikos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 [quote name='Circle_Master' date='May 20 2004, 06:33 PM'] They may be in existance, but personally I don't see an emphasis in the Catholic Church on ancient near-east philology and archaeology like evangelical's do. In the Catholic Church I see an emphasis on the writings of the Church Fathers, and an emphasis on it's own writings beyond that. [/quote] Right. The battle of the historical sources. Well, I at least commend you for admitting that you depend on near-east philology (yes, I had to look that word up) and archaeology to define what you believe about Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I have an excellent two-volume 7,000 page book on the near ancient east I'd like to part with if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I'm interested. Which is it (hopefully I don't have it already) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 why would anybody dare reporting a post by the webmaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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