mulls Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='theculturewarrior' date='May 20 2004, 04:47 PM'] Let me rephrase the question... For all the variety of evangelical opinion, does every evangelical hold that his personal interpretation of the Bible is absolute Truth? If so, do evangelicals try to convert other evangelicals with different opinions? Do they do this the same way they do Catholics? [/quote] yes to each question. with that being said i humbly invite you and all catholics and evangelicals alike to attend... "The Holy Church of Mulls the Prophet" while at HCMP you will hear the ONLY correct interpretation of the bible, as deemed by myself. you will not be allowed to search the scriptures for yourself, or allow God to speak through his Word to you. the Holy Spirit guides me and me alone, and if you disagree, you are a heretic and are not saved. i am your only authority, therefore i alone dictate what the bible says and means. the bible is never allowed to speak for itself. come, hear the Word of God of Mulls at my new church. no cover charge. your first healing is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 Sometimes the difference run deeper than that, LJ. I know evangelicals who don't believe in OSAS, and some who do. How do evangelicals see that difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 thing is, CW, most of the Christians I know, don't really know to label what they believe as OSAS or not... they just know that in being saved, they are saved...they walk with Christ, and live in Christ...not really ever labelling themselves as "sola scriptura" or "osas" or whatever else. they just know that they are saved...and in walking in a submissive walk with Christ (that means submissive to the Holy Ghost and the conviction thereof and submissive to the preachers and teachers He's put in the church, so long as they aren't evil), that they are saved for life....is this not right? it wasn't up until very recently that I found out my doctrines had names and tags and all this other junk attatched to them...and believe me, the Lord has pruned me. but hey, thats just me. ----------- and mulls...sign me up! I'm only using like 7% of my brain anyways...not like I should strain myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 excellent. first things first....the Holy Ghost will only convict you of what i deem is worthy of conviction, based on my own authoritative biblical interpretation. God told Peter to kill and eat, therefore you may never again eat food which you do not slaughter yourself. can't grill it unless you kill it. if you disagree with my interpretation, you do not know Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 From your humorous statements, I perceive that you do not believe in authoritative interpretation. How then is that not relativism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 i believe their position is like, well there is an absolute moral truth, but we cannot know exactly what it is. which i believe is not the right Christian view because Christianity proclaims a Personal God who has personally revealed Himself and what human actions pleas and displease Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote]they just know that in being saved, they are saved...they walk with Christ, and live in Christ...not really ever labelling themselves as "sola scriptura" or "osas" or whatever else. [/quote] I don't label my beliefs either, but I perceive that differing opinions are indeed different, and I do not seek to diminish this by downplaying the differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote]i believe their position is like, well there is an absolute moral truth, but we cannot know exactly what it is. which i believe is not the right Christian view because Christianity proclaims a Personal God who has personally revealed Himself and what human actions pleas and displease Him. [/quote] The Catholic Church teaches that objective Truth can be known with reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='May 18 2004, 01:53 PM']well CW, I would say a definite YES to the first ? I've met plenty of Catholics who are saved and still go to mass and remain in the Catholic Church...though they don't hold to what they have found for [u]themselves[/u] to be extrabiblical teachings of the Catholic Church. and as for the second one...hmmm...it depends on what you mean by what the Catholic Church "teaches"... are we talking confirmed doctrine...or any of the other dogma/teachings/decrees? because as of yet, I have yet to get a concise, clear list of what confirmed Catholic Church doctrine is, and what is just dogma/whatever else is... so, it would be a shaky maybe on the 2nd ?... God bless.[/quote] When I became a Catholic, I stood before Jesus Himself in the Blessed Sacrament and the entire congregation, and I said: "I believe [b]everything[/b] the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church teaches." Not 'I believe some of it,' but 'I believe [i]all[/i] of it.' The Church speaks for Christ. Would I say to Christ, okay, I'll accept this teaching, but not that one? I'll believe what you said about loving myself, but not the part about loving my neighbor. I'll lie, Lord, that's okay, but I won't steal because I belive that's wrong. I'll accept the Trinity, but not the Eucharist. Catholicism is a package deal. A Catholic, by definition, believes everything the Church teaches, or he cuts himself off from the Church and ceases to be a Catholic. Pity your poor "Catholic in name only friends" whose souls are in danger. They have put their own opinion above the Church's teaching and have thereby rejected Christ. Like all Protestants, they have made themselves their own pope and believe their own interpretations to be infallible. Christ, to the leaders of His Church: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects the one who sent me" Lk 10:16. "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven . . ." Mt 16:18-19. As for "unbiblical" teachings, the New Testament was written by the Catholic Church. The Church selected the 27 writings in the NT from among 200 or more writings which she had produced. The Catholic Bishops had four rules for allowing a writing into the canon -- [b][i]one of them was that the writing had to conform to the teaching of the Church. [/i][/b] So to anyone who knows Bible history, your statement is ludicrous. JMJ Likos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 How can you have objective, unified Truth without an authority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='May 20 2004, 03:59 PM'] and Likos, I don't feel like swimming thru an ocean of paperwork just to find out what is dogma and what isn't dogma or doctrine... I have SOOOOO MUCH to still learn from the Bible, much less start trying to find out what the Catholic Church "OFFICIALLY" believes or not. but thank you anyway, brother. God bless. [/quote] LJ, You asked the question what is doctrine, what is dogma, what is development ... I answered. You didn't have to swim through an ocean of paperwork, but you would have had to read three paragraphs. Of course, I knew that you really didn't want to know the answer and would give the information a cursory reading, or ignore it altogether. I was quite sure you'd make no attempt to understand it. Your follow-up statement proved I was right about that. It's clear from your repeated misstatements about Catholicism that you prefer fiction to fact. But I tried. Oremus pro invicem (Let us pray for one another). Likos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='May 20 2004, 02:34 PM'] thats the thing dust, what IS dogma? what is doctrine? [/quote] Likos defined that for you quite well. But the answering of my question has no bearing on what is/isn't. I said if I were to believe in all Catholic teaching, regardless of the category, is there anything that the Church teaches that would cause me to lose my salvation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 [quote name='theculturewarrior' date='May 20 2004, 05:49 PM'] How can you have objective, unified Truth without an authority? [/quote] The authority is the Holy Scriptures. And now if you ask, why do you all disagree then? Well, let me explain that there is a grammatical-historical hermeneutic. This isn't as complex as it sounds, it means that whatever the author meant to his original audience is what the text should mean and by studying the history, and culture, and theology of that time and prior, we should be able to find out the true meaning of any text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AloysiusGhost Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 so you haveta be a history scholar and a greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic language and greek and hebrew culture scholar.... as opposed to submitting to the Apostolic Authority that continues to explain and explain things to its members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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