Bride Of Christ

[abrideofChrist]

I was just looking through the thread and found your post, and I see you're the author of the blog that I linked above! :) (lol!). I hope I understood your blog posts correctly. If you have any thoughts about those questions or if I misunderstood something, please let me know and I'd really appreciate that! :)

 

I saw your other post too about how nuns can still have the spirituality of being brides of Christ, even if the Church doesn't officially call them this, like it does with Consecrated Virgins. I think the whole question for me is how this relates to the ontological reality of who they are. This isn't just for curiosity, I mean I'm discerning my vocation and one of the things that I'm drawn to is the idea of being a bride of Christ. If nuns have this spirituality, does this point to them being brides of Christ spiritually... even if the Church doesn't officially call them this... I guess that is my question, and I don't know if the Church has said anything on this and if it's something that only God knows. I guess I'll just put this into His hands cause He knows where He is leading me. What confused me initially is the idea that someone could have this spirituality but not in fact be a bride of Christ - which just makes it too confusing and could lead someone to even question their vocation... I've always seen nuns as brides of Christ  because this spirituality is often mentioned by them, admittedly I didn't know much about Consecrated Virgins; now I'm trying to figure out the Church's teaching... I can't comment though on whether God sees them as His brides, I mean that's not for me to figure out, - God knows this and perhaps something has been said to the Saints in private revelations. :) my first idea was that if they have this spirituality, then that's who they are too - even if not as 'officially' as Consecrated Virgins, but I guess I'll leave that to God and the Church. I'm not saying they're not brides of Christ either... :)

 

You've hit the nail on the head.  This is why it is of utmost importance for virgin discerners to be able to discern whether they are called to vowed discipleship, being a bride of Christ, or both.  My position as I have said over and over is that we are talking about ontological reality and not just titles.  I have said that this is an important issue because we don't want discerners mislead.  Laurie's post hits the heart of the matter which is that the consecrated virgin IS the bride of Christ.

 

As for spirituality- what I mean by this term is that we have a certain devotional slant.  Like when the Little Flower writes (it's been ages since I read the Story of a Soul so my memory could be faulty) about how she imagines herself at table to be a member of the Holy Family.  She offers sweet foods to the Infant Jesus.  Sour foods to Mary?  St. Joseph?  And other types of foods to someone else.  This is a sweet form of spirituality that doesn't literally mean she is surrounded by her sisters who are in fact the Holy Family, it just means that she finds the imagery more helpful for her to offer thanks to God for sweet, sour, and other foods.  Does that make sense?  This is what I am saying of religious sisters.  It is a sweet and pious and sometimes overly sentimental idea to imagine themselves as literally brides of Christ.  They are in fact by virtue of their being in the consecrated state, greater partakers of the spousal nature of the Church to Christ.  But they are not in fact brides of Christ.
 

[freedomreigns]

I guess I am blessed I am just a normal Christian and I don't have to be too concerned about my vocation.  Seems like it makes it easier to actually focus on Christ.

 

I have never been one to find it appealing when people quibble about vocation and what is "better" or "higher" and now whether or not "bride of Christ" applies to any but a certain elite number...I am the Lord's and that is enough for me.  

Edited July 24, 2013 by freedomreigns

[Sister Marie]

Abrideofchrist, Thank you for all your wonderful responses.  In your mind, would the following be correct?

 

Religious women, with public vows of chastity, poverty, and obedience are vowed to practice chastity, poverty, and obedience in imitation of Jesus and for the service of the Church. The interior relationship of these women with Christ is a spousal relationship although their vocation is one of discipleship characterized by the evangelical vows, communal living, and an apostolate (if they are active) that is in union with their particular communal charism.

 

Thanks for your response.  I think I understand what you are saying and what those discerning religious life are saying and I would love for a bridge of communication to be built here so that we can understand, grow, and know one another in Christ and in our respective vocations.

 

Prayers for you.. and I am really grateful that you are here to share about your vocation!  SM

 

[abrideofChrist]

I read in "And You are Christ's", on page 17, a bit about the difference between virginity and chastity. Of course I agree that virginity is the perfect form of purity, that the vow of chastity can be taken by non-virgins, that in this way consecrated virginity is different than all religious, unless they also have the Consecration.

 

I guess the question is more - must someone be a consecrated virgin to be a bride of Christ, or can they be a nun without the Consecration, as well? I'll try to find some literature on that...

 

Hmm I see what you are saying.. I agree with what you said about Consecrated Virgins. With the point about religious - I need to think about that. You said that there is a form of CV vocation in "religious form": do you mean the nuns who make the Consecration? I'm just not aware if such orders exist right now? (maybe they do, I don't know)

Thinking about this... I'm not sure if what I said above was wrong or not (I mean in my previous post, about both CVs and religious having a bridal component to them). I've always thought that nuns do as well... if they have any bridal component as well, doesn't this make them brides, or more like sharing in it, and is there a difference? I'm going to see if Fr Thomas Dubay has anything to say on the topic...

 

Consecrated virginity is not just the fact one is a virgin or even has the resolve or vow to remain a virgin forever.  It is an ontological change that happens through the ministry of the bishop.

 

What I mean by the religious CV form is that the Rite of Consecration to a Life of Virginity has two formulas.  One is written for religious nuns.  It is practically identical to the other one which is written for women living in the world.  There are very slight differences.  For example, Consecration (to a life of Virginity) for nuns (not sisters) takes place in the monastery.  It should take place in the same ceremony of Solemn Profession of solemn vows.  The Consecration to a life of Virginity for women living in the world takes place ideally in the Cathedral.  Two women are her bridesmaids.  For nuns, usually one is the Superior and Formator.

Also, a CV doesn't "make a Consecration".  She receives the Consecration.  Just as a man receives Ordination.  The Holy Spirit is the One constituting the virgin into a bride of Christ. Nothing that a woman can do or say will make her a bride of Christ.  It is the action of God, mediated through the Church that does this.  Let me make another comparison.  No one makes their Confirmation.  They receive it and it changes them.  This is one reason why there is a profound difference between religious life per se and consecrated virginity per se.  Religious life occurs through the active offering of a person of themselves to God through vows.  Consecrated virginity occurs through the passive reception of the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit mediated through the prayer of the bishop.  Does this make sense?

[freedomreigns]

I may have missed it, but is there a Church document that uses the words "ontological change" in relation to consecrated virginity?  

 

(honest question) 

Edited July 24, 2013 by freedomreigns

[Laurie]

ABRIDEOFCHRIST will know far more about this than I do, but for what it's worth, regarding ontological change.

 

The consecration of a virgin is what the Church calls a "constitutive sacramental." Fr. Paschal Botz, OSB, gives a short description in his document "The Consecration of Virgins: What it is and what it should do":

 

"The Rite itself is not a short, simple blessing, but a very elaborate liturgical drama whereby the greatest possible of blessings come to an unmarried woman...It is a sacramental given to virgins in the Church and by the Church. It is a reserved blessing, that is, a special kind that is reserved to the bishops. I think at one time, in the early centuries of the Church, it was reserved to the Pope. And so it takes special jurisdiction to confer this Consecration. We speak of this as a constitutive sacramental; therefore, as a permanent Sacramental. It is one that inheres and does not diminish as the years go by....

 

...It is not an empy ritual; there is no empty ritual in the Catholic church. It is not the same as vows. In the early centuries there were consecrated persons who were not in religous vows. But the difference that it makes is the giving expression to the nuptials in the Church. The Church is by her very nature in spiritual nuptials with Christ, and if that is part of the Church's nature, then it must be expressed because the Church wants to express her nature. We can see it makes a great difference in terms of new graces, exceeding new graces, that we could never have without this Consecration; a new great power of meriting. I would say an instrument, a principle, a meriting, a kind of spiritual equipment by which your love is incroprorated anew in Christ and gives you a new power of efficacy...Therefore it does do something to you."

 

He goes on to describe the Consecration as meaning the Consecrated Virgin takes a new position within the Mystical Body. He also describes the Consecration a power and function.

 

All of the above language is consistent with what the Church, in her philosophy, would categorize as an "ontological change." I don't, though, have any Church documents at hand that explain a constitutive sacramental.

 

 

[abrideofChrist]

I may have missed it, but is there a Church document that uses the words "ontological change" in relation to consecrated virginity?  

 

The Church documents do not say ontological change.  But they do use words that basically say the same thing.  Here's the most important example:

 

The custom of consecrating women to a life of virginity flourished even in the early Church.  It led to the formation of a solemn rite constituting the candidate a sacred person, a surpassing sign of the Church's love for Christ, and an eschatological image of the world to come and the glory of the heavenly Bride of Christ.  In the rite of consecration the Church reveals its love of virginity, begs God's grace on those who are consecrated, and prays with fervor for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit....

 

[This ontological change does not come from the virgin:]  Are you resolved to accept solemn consecration as a Bride of Our Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God?

May the Lord Jesus, who unites to Himself the hearts of sacred virgins in a nuptial covenant, make your hearts fruitful by the word that is God's seed....

May the Holy Spirit, who came down upon the Blessed Virgin and descending today has consecrated your hearts, fire you with zeal for the service of God and the Church....

Be mindful also, Lord of these sisters, whom you have consecrated today by a spiritual annointing so that, with lighted lamps of charity and faith, they may constantly serve you and your people as they await the advent of Christ the Bridegroom...
 

The above snippets all come from the Rite of Consecration...

Edited July 24, 2013 by abrideofChrist

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Perhaps Sponsa Christi could clarify what she meant in the blog :)

 

I guess these are the relevant questions here...

 

1. Does an ontological change happen when someone becomes a bride of Christ. (Not saying it doesn't. I'm going to look through the last few posts since they seem to address this).

 

2. If so, what is necessary for this ontological change to occur? This is important...

 

3. What happens to those who receive a mystical espousal with Christ? (in mystical theology, the 6th and 7th mansions in the Interior Castle). Or is this different, though they are also called spouses of Christ?

 

4. How can nuns have a 'spousal relationship' with Christ and not be brides in the strict sense? Maybe this is one is only unclear to me, but I can't get my mind around it.

 

If the Consecration is necessary to be a bride of Christ (excepting the mystical espousal which could happen in the contemplative life to a person of any vocation, I guess) - then those who are called to be His brides, should either become Consecrated Virgins in the world, or join a religious order that does the Consecration of Virginity. Which leads to:

 

5. which orders today actually have this.

 

So many questions :(

Edited July 24, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[Laurie]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

 

1672    Certain blessings have a lasting importance because they consecrate persons to God, or reserve objects and places for liturgical use. Among those blessings which are intended for persons—not to be confused with sacramental ordination—are the blessing of the abbot or abbess of a monastery, the consecration of virgins and widows, the rite of religious profession and the blessing of certain ministries of the Church (readers, acolytes, catechists, etc.). The dedication or blessing of a church or an altar, the blessing of holy oils, vessels, and vestments, bells, etc., can be mentioned as examples of blessings that concern objects. (923, 925, 903)

[MarysLittleFlower]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

 

1672    Certain blessings have a lasting importance because they consecrate persons to God, or reserve objects and places for liturgical use. Among those blessings which are intended for persons—not to be confused with sacramental ordination—are the blessing of the abbot or abbess of a monastery, the consecration of virgins and widows, the rite of religious profession and the blessing of certain ministries of the Church (readers, acolytes, catechists, etc.). The dedication or blessing of a church or an altar, the blessing of holy oils, vessels, and vestments, bells, etc., can be mentioned as examples of blessings that concern objects. (923, 925, 903)

 

Thanks for the quote... this lists both the consecration of virgins and religious profession. I wish there was something describing if an ontological change happens and what is necessary for it.

[abrideofChrist]

Abrideofchrist, Thank you for all your wonderful responses.  In your mind, would the following be correct?

 

Religious women, with public vows of chastity, poverty, and obedience are vowed to practice chastity, poverty, and obedience in imitation of Jesus and for the service of the Church. The interior relationship of these women with Christ is a spousal relationship although their vocation is one of discipleship characterized by the evangelical vows, communal living, and an apostolate (if they are active) that is in union with their particular communal charism.

 

Thanks for your response.  I think I understand what you are saying and what those discerning religious life are saying and I would love for a bridge of communication to be built here so that we can understand, grow, and know one another in Christ and in our respective vocations.

 

Prayers for you.. and I am really grateful that you are here to share about your vocation!  SM

 

If by "The interior relationship of these women with Christ is a spousal relationship" you mean that it IS a spousal relationship, I wouldn't agree.  I would say it shares or participates in in the Church's spousal relationship.  Again, this is because those of us who are unordained share in the priesthood of Christ but we are not priests.  Consecrated virgins ARE spouses and Have a spousal relationship.  Religious reflect that to a certain extent but only to a certain extent.  I thought I read somewhere of a comparison someone else was making (on a different website/thread?) of how religious life is like the diaconate.  It isn't lay.  But it isn't the fullness of the priesthood or the fullness of what it means to be bride of Christ.

[Laurie]

What we mean by an ontological change is that the person is fundamentally changed. Baptism is an ontological change. (If you google "Baptism ontological change" or "ordination ontological change" a bunch of stuff should come up--though you'll have to discern among what you find what is a good resource and what is not.)

 

Sacramentals, while not Sacraments, can also bring about a change in the person so significant that it can be considered ontological. Fr. Botz's terminology above was quite helpful--that a constitutive sacramental does not fade away. It inheres and has a permanent significance within the person who is consecrated.

 

Significantly, once a virgin is consecrated, this consecration can never be "un-done." Once a woman is consecrated as a virgin, she is not free to marry in the Church. There is no dispensation that can be given, no way to "un-do" what has been done. She is consecrated, set apart for God. Forever. Full stop.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Laurie

[abrideofChrist]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Perhaps Sponsa Christi could clarify what she meant in the blog :)

 

I guess these are the relevant questions here...

 

1. Does an ontological change happen when someone becomes a bride of Christ. (Not saying it doesn't. I'm going to look through the last few posts since they seem to address this).

 

YES. 

 

 

2. If so, what is necessary for this ontological change to occur? This is important...

 

The conferral of the Consecration upon the virgin by the bishop.

 

3. What happens to those who receive a mystical espousal with Christ? (in mystical theology, the 6th and 7th mansions in the Interior Castle). Or is this different, though they are also called spouses of Christ?

 

They then are brides of Christ in the mystical espousal sense of transforming union.  Not of a nuptial bond specifically making a person an imago Ecclesiae.

 

4. How can nuns have a 'spousal relationship' with Christ and not be brides in the strict sense? Maybe this is one is only unclear to me, but I can't get my mind around it.

 

I have explained this using the analogy of the common priesthood vs. ordained priesthood.  Dubay shows how it is with the 4 ways the bride of Christ thing is meant. 

 

If the Consecration is necessary to be a bride of Christ (excepting the mystical espousal which could happen in the contemplative life to a person of any vocation, I guess) - then those who are called to be His brides, should either become Consecrated Virgins in the world, or join a religious order that does the Consecration of Virginity. Which leads to:

 

YEP.  that's my (obviously unpopular) point.

 

5. which orders today actually have this.

 

Well, as many of the posters including myself have pointed out... not many.  Some benedictines, Trappastines, Carthusians, and a handful of Carmelites.  There may be others we are not aware of. 

 

So many questions :(

 

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thanks for the reply!

 

How could a person find out which orders do the Consecration? :) ..just email them? I mean if this is something that they discern, but are also drawn to religious life at the same time.

 

Let's say someone enters a religious order, which doesn't do the Consecration of Virgins. But they get the ring and hear the words "I espouse you to Jesus Christ...". What would this mean for the nun? Even if it's not exactly like the Consecration, it must mean something too? And so many nuns have this as their spirituality..

 

I think this whole topic has just been difficult for me, maybe more emotionally than intellectually, though intellectually I clearly have much to learn about this. I think I really need to pray.

Edited July 24, 2013 by MarysLittleFlower

[abrideofChrist]

Thanks for the reply!

 

How could a person find out which orders do the Consecration? :) ..just email them?

 

Let's say someone enters a religious order, which doesn't do the Consecration of Virgins. But they get the ring and hear the words "I espouse you to Jesus Christ...". What would this mean for the nun? Even if it's not exactly like the Consecration, it must mean something too? And so many nuns have this as their spirituality..

 

I think this whole topic has just been difficult for me, maybe more emotionally than intellectually, though intellectually I clearly have much to learn about this. I think I really need to pray.

 

Getting a ring and being told they are espoused to Christ means that the Church does not mind that community having more of a bridal spirituality.  it doesn't mean that they are in fact brides of Christ per se.  Again, the key is whether or not they actually receive the Consecration according to the Rite laid out in the Roman Pontifical. 

 

Yes.  It is hard emotionally.  I struggled with it and many others have when discerning.  It's easier to discern for women who are not virgins because they then do not qualify for the Consecration.  That is why I talked about homosexual "marriage" earlier.  A person exposed to it for forever and who may even be a child of a gay couple is going to be emotionally kicked in the stomach when they start understanding why gay marriage is not marriage.