Catholicism Is Dangerous Now, Apparently.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1343841884' post='2461143']
Why don't the government just get out of the marriage business all together? Let's let the churches perform marriages, and the government issue civil union certificates. Make it the same for everybody. Men and women, men and men, women and women, men and women + women, whatever. They all get to be legally civil union-fied. Then find a church to get married. Gay people can go to a gay church to get married. Pet lovers can go to their "pets are people too" church to get married to their pets. Everybody is happy.
[/quote]

You're probably just joking around. Even so the Church wouldn't approve of those things.

[quote][url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm"]CCC 2105[/url] The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is "the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ." [b]By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them "to infuse the [u]Christian spirit[/u] into the mentality and [u]mores, laws and structures[/u] of the communities in which [they] live."[/b] The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church. Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies.

[/quote]

[tojo]

The "tolerant people" will not be happy to simply have all the rights they want; not as long as we refuse to applaud their [s]sin[/s] lifestyle.

[Winchester]

Where's the one about "Thou shalt get State permission before receiving sacraments"?

It's a shame Catholics joined the pietists.

[Annie12]

Hey! I'll be a martyr for the church! (I wouldn't want to die by a bullet though... that would hurt pretty bad...)


But, arfink, You have a very good point. I wonder how many Catholics actually see this in the future? I do. Hasn't it been predicted in Marian apparitions and stuff?

The church teaches that there will be an apostasy from the church before the arrival of the antichrist. I dunno if this is what is happening but if it is it kinda makes sense.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Annie12

[Anomaly]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1343842482' post='2461155']
You're probably just joking around. Even so the Church wouldn't approve of those things.




[url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm"][color="#888888"]CCC 2105[/color][/url] The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is "the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ." [b]By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them "to infuse the [u][u]Christian spirit[/u][/u] into the mentality and [u][u]mores, laws and structures[/u][/u] of the communities in which [they] live."[/b] The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church. Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies.

[/quote]And then there is "The Rest of the Story":

[b][url="javascript:openWindow('cr/2106.htm');"]2106[/b] "[b]Nobody may be forced to act against his convictions, nor is anyone to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience in religious matters in private or in public, alone or in association with others, within due limits[/b]."[sup][size="2"]34[/size][/sup] This right is based on the very nature of the human person, whose dignity enables him freely to assent to the divine truth which transcends the temporal order. For this reason it "continues to exist even in those who do not live up to their obligation of seeking the truth and adhering to it."[sup][size="2"]35[/size][/sup]
[/url][b]2107[/b] "If because of the circumstances of a particular people special civil recognition is given to one religious community in the constitutional organization of a state, [b]the right of all citizens and religious communities to religious freedom must be recognized and respected as well[/b]."[sup][size="2"]36[/size][/sup]
[url=""][b][url="javascript:openWindow('cr/2108.htm');"]2108[/url][/b] The right to religious liberty is neither a moral license to adhere to error, nor a supposed right to error,[sup][size="2"]37[/size][/sup] but rather a natural right of the human person to civil liberty, i.e., immunity, within just limits, from external constraint in religious matters by political authorities. [b]This natural right ought to be acknowledged in the juridical order of society in such a way that it constitutes a civil right.[/b][sup][size="2"]38[/size][/sup]
[/url][b]<a href="javascript:openWindow('cr/2109.htm');">2109[/b] The right to religious liberty can of itself be neither unlimited nor limited only by a "public order" conceived in a positivist or naturalist manner.[sup][size="2"]39[/size][/sup] [b]The "due limits" which are inherent in it must be determined for each social situation by political prudence, according to the requirements of the common good, and ratified by the civil authority in accordance with "legal principles which are in conformity with the objective moral order[/b]."[sup][size="2"]40[/size][/sup]


Catholics have to defer to the will of the majority and political realities of what principles are understood by society as being for the common good and what is the objective moral order. In other words, religions may choose to define what a marriage is (or isn't), teach it's people accordingly, and work to charitably change the public majority opinion. The religion can insist on the government recognizing the 'Religious Marriage' in the civil context, but it's a two edged sword when you read 2107, that other religions have the same right to be recognized.

What dUSt is saying, is the Government should not be allowed to tell the religion what a 'Religious Marriage' is or isn't, but the religions can ask the Government to recognize the 'Religiouis Marriage' in the civil context.

[tojo]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1343845896' post='2461183']
What dUSt is saying, is the Government should not be allowed to tell the religion what a 'Religious Marriage' is or isn't, but the religions can ask the Government to recognize the 'Religiouis Marriage' in the civil context.
[/quote]

Marriage is not a 'religious" thing; except in that it is a natural thing and religious people believe God created and designed nature. For the sake of comparison: the fact that I am a man is natural; the fact that most religious people would take one look at me and agree does not give a religious nature to my masculinity.

[inunionwithrome]

This is a definately a year of prayer!

[beaverman]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1343841678' post='2461141']
So get over it. The Catholic Church should buck-up and not compromise their principles just to avoid paying taxes. This tax exempt status standing is making them Thralls to the State. Just give Cesar his money and do what your morals call you to do and then work to regain tax exempt status.
[/quote]

I agree with you. I was just mentioning that losing their tax exempt status will make things more difficult.

[sixpence]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1343841884' post='2461143']
Why don't the government just get out of the marriage business all together? Let's let the churches perform marriages, and the government issue civil union certificates. Make it the same for everybody. Men and women, men and men, women and women, men and women + women, whatever. They all get to be legally civil union-fied. Then find a church to get married. Gay people can go to a gay church to get married. Pet lovers can go to their "pets are people too" church to get married to their pets. Everybody is happy.
[/quote]

Hey you stole my idea I came up with in high school

[4588686]

I agree. I found it pretty disturbing when that story broke about the NYPD infiltrating all sorts of Catholics Church and student organizations. And then, to top it all off, there have been a wave of state constitutional amendments banning Catholics from marying other Catholics. Very scary stuff for Catholics going on right now.

[Winchester]

It is against the law to turn people into mary.

[4588686]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1343856766' post='2461257']
It is against the law to turn people into mary.
[/quote]

Oh, you!

[Lil Red]

[img]http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/oh-you-show.jpg[/img]

[BG45]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1343841884' post='2461143']
Why don't the government just get out of the marriage business all together? Let's let the churches perform marriages, and the government issue civil union certificates. Make it the same for everybody. Men and women, men and men, women and women, men and women + women, whatever. They all get to be legally civil union-fied. Then find a church to get married. Gay people can go to a gay church to get married. Pet lovers can go to their "pets are people too" church to get married to their pets. Everybody is happy.
[/quote]

Some parts of Europe you get your civil union at the courthouse and the "marriage" ceremony at the church after you've been legally joined. Aka, what you suggest.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1343842482' post='2461155']
[url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm"]CCC 2105[/url] The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is "the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ." [b]By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them "to infuse the [u]Christian spirit[/u] into the mentality and [u]mores, laws and structures[/u] of the communities in which [they] live."[/b] The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church. Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies.
[/quote]


Just because people want the state to get out of the marriage business doesn't mean we are abdicating all of our social influence to the godless commies et al. There are more effective vehicles imo to change society.


And I'm too tired to type out the rest of my thoughts, but perhaps Winchester can link some shnazzy stuff about the limits of human law etc etc.