New Carmelite Monastery In Oakland, Ca

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1344208754' post='2463145']
I assume the fact that Valparaiso and Elysburg use the Traditional Latin Mass also means their LOTH are are also in Latin.[/quote]

Yes, they both pray all of the Hours only in Latin. The only Office books they use are of the Ancient Carmelite Rite which the Carmelite Monks reprinted for them as they also use these books. I believe they are the only Carmels in the world that still use them. They also have the Martryology for Prime everyday. I don't know how Matins works with other Orders, maybe the same as theirs, but they have 9 Psalms with 3 readings, except on 1st and 2nd Class Feast days when there are still 9 Psalms but also 9 readings; 3 in-between each 3 Psalms. And of course the Te Deum. On First Class Feasts Lauds is sung, and sometimes the Invitatory for Matins (Pslam 94; Venite Exsultemus) with its Antiphon is sung also, sometimes also the Te Deum. There is much more about the traditions they use; but I don't know if I could explain it all well enough....

[emmaberry]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1344013665' post='2462118']
Yes, most are from the Belgium/France line - [url="https://picasaweb.google.com/112954809546652959393/UnitedStatesFoundations17901990#5056127004945079938"]flow chart[/url] (an album of Carmels I put up a while back :j)
[/quote]

WOW. You're right-that is a ton of French Carmels. I prefer the original Spanish habit, but of course that is a very minor external thing. When I first watched the mini series on Saint Teresa of Avila and Saint Teresa de los Andes, I thought it was so strange how their veil was tucked into the scapular. By the end of the films I found it very endearing and now I prefer it!

Thanks for the chart, I am sure a lot of people have found it very useful concerning US Carmels!

[Chiquitunga]

First, nunsense thanks for the info on UK Carmels and the picture! I need to learn more about them. Also, I was just realizing the other day, you probably thought I made that US foundations chart myself. Ha, no! What work that would take! No, I scanned it from this book, https://picasaweb.google.com/112954809546652959393/UnitedStatesFoundations17901990#5056462841322856610

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1344219056' post='2463260']
When I first watched the mini series on Saint Teresa of Avila and Saint Teresa de los Andes, I thought it was so strange how their veil was tucked into the scapular. By the end of the films I found it very endearing and now I prefer it![/quote]

French Carmels tuck in the "day veil" as I've heard it called, too (one example, [url="http://www.eriercd.org/carmelites4.asp"]Erie, PA[/url]) I've only seen a few occasions where they seem to wear it out most of the time, like [url="http://www.kirkedge.org.uk/rec.html"]Kirk Edge[/url] or Terre Haute and in some really old pictures from French Carmels like Lisieux (but then I've seen old pictures from French Carmels where they have it tucked under too) Then the larger veil goes over this (worn at particular times like at Mass, when they are out, like these nuns in Oakland were, when greeting visitors in the parlor <-- some don't though, but more traditional ones generally do)

[emmaberry]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1344232156' post='2463345']
French Carmels tuck in the "day veil" as I've heard it called, too (one example, [url="http://www.eriercd.org/carmelites4.asp"]Erie, PA[/url]) I've only seen a few occasions where they seem to wear it out most of the time, like [url="http://www.kirkedge.org.uk/rec.html"]Kirk Edge[/url] or Terre Haute and in some really old pictures from French Carmels like Lisieux (but then I've seen old pictures from French Carmels where they have it tucked under too) Then the larger veil goes over this (worn at particular times like at Mass, when they are out, like these nuns in Oakland were, when greeting visitors in the parlor <-- some don't though, but more traditional ones generally do)
[/quote]

Whew! I thought you made the chart.. I got tired just looking at it.

That is good to know about the French Carmel's veil customs. The nun I spoke with at the Arlington, TX Carmel had her veil tucked in and I thought, "What's wrong with the veil???" I wonder whether they are Spanish or French. Off to check the chart!

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1344232730' post='2463349']
Whew! I thought you made the chart.. I got tired just looking at it.

That is good to know about the French Carmel's veil customs. The nun I spoke with at the Arlington, TX Carmel had her veil tucked in and I thought, "What's wrong with the veil???" I wonder whether they are Spanish or French. Off to check the chart!
[/quote]
Did you find them yet? They're on the bottom right on the Belgian/French chart, listed as Fort Worth. Okay, better get to sleep for now ..

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1344018317' post='2462206']
Well, this site is quite good, but I don't think I want to do a graph. Maybe someone else wants to. There have been a lot of mergings in the past few years anyway. I know that one of the nuns at WV is helping Upholland get their documents organised for packing up as they are merging with the nuns from Golders Green who have been living with the Preston nuns for the past few years while the new monastery was being built. I might take a detective to get all the monasteries charted now!!

[url="http://www.carmelnuns.org.uk/"]http://www.carmelnuns.org.uk/[/url]



And from [url="http://www.carmelite.org.uk/Nunsinbritain.html"]http://www.carmelite...sinbritain.html[/url]

There are 17 Carmelite Monasteries in England, 6 in Scotland and 1 in Wales. Almost 400 nuns live in these 24 Carmels, their lives dedicated to prayer in silence and solitude.

The history of the Carmelite Nuns in Great Britain follows two distinct lines.

The sisters in Lanherne and Darlington trace their roots back to Belgium and were established in England in the 18th century. The second link is with France. The Carmels in London, Golders Green and Notting Hill, were founded from the Carmels of Lyons and Paris respectively in the 19th century.

Most of the other Carmels were founded from Notting Hill between 1907 and 1938. Four houses were founded from other Carmels in more recent years between 1953 and 1983.
[img]http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab166/nunsense/maps8.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I hadn't realized there were SO MANY Carmelite Communities in the UK! Wow!

In contrast, as far as I know, there are only 3 active Dominican Communities in England (not sure about the rest of the UK or Ireland) and NO cloistered Dominican Communities in England. (I THINK the nearest cloistered Dominican Community to England is in Ireland.)

In all of your "spare time" (LOL!) could you add a few words of prayer for additional strong Dominican vocations in the UK and Ireland? (The LOL refers to your "spare time" and lack thereof--the request to pray for more Dominican vocations is a serious one.)

I'm very glad that there are so many Carmelite Communities in the UK. But, for many reasons, it would also be wonderful to have more options in the UK for women who are called to the Dominican life. Thanks!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1344299206' post='2463661']
I hadn't realized there were SO MANY Carmelite Communities in the UK! Wow!

In contrast, as far as I know, there are only 3 active Dominican Communities in England (not sure about the rest of the UK or Ireland) and NO cloistered Dominican Communities in England. (I THINK the nearest cloistered Dominican Community to England is in Ireland.)

In all of your "spare time" (LOL!) could you add a few words of prayer for additional strong Dominican vocations in the UK and Ireland? (The LOL refers to your "spare time" and lack thereof--the request to pray for more Dominican vocations is a serious one.)

I'm very glad that there are so many Carmelite Communities in the UK. But, for many reasons, it would also be wonderful to have more options in the UK for women who are called to the Dominican life. Thanks!
[/quote]

In addition to the one that LC entered [url="http://www.dominicansrs.co.uk/"]http://www.dominicansrs.co.uk/[/url]

there is one at Stone. [url="http://stone-dominicans.blogspot.co.uk/"]http://stone-dominicans.blogspot.co.uk/[/url]

What is the third one?Just for those who are interested, it would be good to have a link.

I am always praying for vocations, doesn't matter what order they are.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

The third Community that LC mentioned to me is known as the "Bushey" Dominicans:

[b][i][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Hertfordshire: [/font][/i][/b]

[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][b]Dominican Sisters of St Catherine of Siena, [/b]Rosary Priory, 93 Elstree Road, Bushey Heath, Bushey, Hertfordshire, England, WD23 4EE UNITED KINGDOM. [b][color="#18605a"][W][/color] [url="http://dominicansisters.co.uk/"]http://dominicansisters.co.uk/[/url][/b][/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]However, in looking up Dominican Communities, I found a few others', but I think they are either 3rd Order Communities or perhaps missions of one of the main Communities (not sure), since LC told me that in England there are only 3 Communities of active Dominican Sisters and no cloistered Communities. (We didn't talk about the other countries in the UK or about Ireland, except that LC thought there was a cloistered Community there.)[b] [/b][/font]

[Chiquitunga]

The latest on the Oakland foundation, [url="http://cal-catholic.com/wordpress/2012/07/30/new-carmelite-house/#comment-4291"]http://cal-catholic....e/#comment-4291[/url]

Let's keep them in prayer!

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1344208754' post='2463145']
When I think of what makes the Valparaiso and Elysburg Carmels unique (at least in the U.S.--no clue about other countries) is the fact that these two Communities use the Traditional Latin Mass (with an FSSP priest). (Yes, I know there is at least one other Community of nuns in the U.S. that uses the Latin Mass (but not Carmelite nuns). However, but at least in the past this Community was considered a secedivist(sp?) Community--not sure of their current status--or their name, for that matter. LOL) Back to the Carmelites--I assume the fact that Valparaiso and Elysburg use the Traditional Latin Mass also means their LOTH are are also in Latin.

I'm the last person who should be attempting a comment on this because I am VERY ignorant about the Carmelites. Heck, I'm totally ignorant about most Orders/Communities, except that I have about a preschooler's level of knowledge about a couple of Dominican Communities. But, there are a number of "Carmelite experts" on VS whom I hope will correct any mistakes I've made, and mention any other ways that Valparaiso and Elysburg may be unique in addition to their habit (which I didn't know about), as well as their use of the Traditional Latin Mass. (Heck, I think I'm pretty unusual for a non-Catholic that I even know what the initials "Traditional Latin Mass" mean! )
[/quote]
Actually the regular chaplain of Valparaiso is a diocesan priest who lives on their property, Msrg. Thorburn. But then the FSSP priests nearby are often there too. The chaplain of Elysburg is an FSSP priest though.

What is unique about Valparaiso (& foundations) is basically their having the Traditional Latin Mass daily and the Carmelite Rite Divine Office (yes, I believe there are no other OCD Carmels in the world using this). But everything else about them is not particularly unique, except for the fact that they have so many entering and in formation! Their habit though is the regular Spanish one. They do not wear or make the hemp sandals (algargatas) as a few Carmels still do .. Buffalo, Alexandria, Brooklyn, Iron Mt., Wichita (I think) Kirk Edge in the UK ..probably I am missing some.

Something else I heard from one young woman who entered Elysburg, but had visited Brooklyn too .. there is a bit of a different between the Carmels of Mexican decent and Spanish, as in Spain. In Brooklyn, three of the Sisters including the Prioress had been in Toledo, so they have particularly Spain Spanish customs .. one of them being always wearing the wool habit, whereas in Valparaiso/Elysburg they have a cotton/polyester blend habit in the summer. Anyway, this was just something she mentioned. I know Dallas wears the wool habit year round too (that must be hot! ) as they felt it actually breathed better than the polyester one.

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

I know things there are just getting up and started but I was curious to know if they have a Chaplain there yet? I know the FSSP Father's take care of the Carmels in Nebraska and Elysburg, so i was wondering if and who they sent from the Fraternity? Also who will be the Reverend Mother; I know some of the Sister's there, so I have a guess of who it is. I'm excited to find out! I know as was the case of the foundation to PA that the Reverend Mother was also the Novice Mistress for some time so perhaps its the same situation, but if not it would be nice to know who the Novice Mistress is also.

[VeniJesuAmorMi]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1344443343' post='2464526']
Actually the regular chaplain of Valparaiso is a diocesan priest who lives on their property, Msrg. Thorburn. But then the FSSP priests nearby are often there too. The chaplain of Elysburg is an FSSP priest though.

They do not wear or make the hemp sandals (algargatas) as a few Carmels still do .. Buffalo, Alexandria, Brooklyn, Iron Mt., Wichita (I think) Kirk Edge in the UK ..probably I am missing some.

[/quote]

God reward you for your information about the chaplain in Nebraska; I always thought for some reason that Msrg. Thorburn was from the Fraternity! Little did I know. I have met him and hes so nice.

I don't know about in Nebraska, but they have started making the hemp sandals at the Elysburg Carmel. Not the whole community has a pair, yet anyway, the Novice Mistress started making them. Most of the Sisters wear Birkenstock Sandals. I always thought they looked nice with the Habit. ... but maybe someday the whole community will start wearing the hemp sandals. They wear their Cinctures in the traditional way also; I'm sure thats the same at Nebraska.

Edited August 9, 2012 by VeniJesuAmorMi

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='VeniJesuAmorMi' timestamp='1344537179' post='2465088']
I know things there are just getting up and started but I was curious to know if they have a Chaplain there yet? I know the FSSP Father's take care of the Carmels in Nebraska and Elysburg, so i was wondering if and who they sent from the Fraternity? Also who will be the Reverend Mother ...
[/quote]
I don't know who the chaplain is but here it says they will elect a Superior when Mother Agnes returns to Valparaiso, [url="http://theyhwhwars.blogspot.com/"]http://theyhwhwars.blogspot.com/[/url] (blog of the father of one of the Sisters, also July 24th was the Feast of the Martyrs of Guadalajara)

[quote name='VeniJesuAmorMi' timestamp='1344538196' post='2465107']
God reward you for your information about the chaplain in Nebraska; I always thought for some reason that Msrg. Thorburn was from the Fraternity! Little did I know. I have met him and hes so nice.[/quote]
I would have thought that too unless someone told me. Here he is, [url="http://www.dioceseoflincoln.org/Directory/priest_thorburn-timothy.aspx"]http://www.dioceseof...rn-timothy.aspx[/url]

[quote name='VeniJesuAmorMi' timestamp='1344538196' post='2465107']I don't know about in Nebraska, but they have started making the hemp sandals at the Elysburg Carmel. Not the whole community has a pair, yet anyway, the Novice Mistress started making them. Most of the Sisters wear Birkenstock Sandals. I always thought they looked nice with the Habit. ... but maybe someday the whole community will start wearing the hemp sandals. They wear their Cinctures in the traditional way also; I'm sure thats the same at Nebraska.
[/quote]
Super neat to hear about!!

[img]http://img.webme.com/pic/c/carmelitasecija/img_1765.jpg[/img]

Sr. Teresita at the Carmel in Écija, Spain (with alpargatas :j) She was clothed on the Feast of Divine Mercy

Edited August 10, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[DaughterOfMary]

I'm so happy to hear about the new Carmel in Oakland. I just started a thread asking about Carmels that celebrate the Tridentine Mass that are legitimate and I was notified about the Carmel in Oakland. Very good news!!!
I think I read that there might be yet another in the future. It's so great how God is calling all these women!!

[Chiquitunga]

+ Praised be Jesus Christ! Tomorrow on the Feast of St. Matthew the Apostle, they will have a Pontifical Mass of Dedication celebrated by Archbishop Cordileone and Solemn Enclosure (probably have the wording a little off there :j)

Also two new articles (one was posted before in the other thread)

[url="http://www.lamorindaweekly.com/archive/issue0613/New-Neighbors-Arrive-in-Canyon.html"][i]New Neighbors Arrive In Canyon[/i][/url]

[url="http://www.catholicvoiceoakland.org/2012/09-17/frontpage1.htm"][i]Carmelite Nuns Settle into Rural Life in Canyon[/i][/url]