Open/closed Brethern

[mulls]

thank you lil red.

[M.SIGGA]

I knew a couple of Brethren kids and their family, I dunno which branch though, when I was growing up. Very very very nice people, who never responded with anything controversal or negative, but really some of the nicest and most humble people I've ever met. Now looking back, I think it was cool that they made their own toys and clothes, and for family entertainment all the children knew how to play different musical instraments so they had sort of a family orchestra instead of always watching TV and movies. I can understand why you say they are so nice and inviting. Peace be with you Mulls ... and hit me up with some of your college ministry stuff

[dUSt]

Still sounds to me that in the Brethren you're pretty much left on your own to figure things out. How would I find out the moral implications of modern day problems such as contraception, abortion, cloning, etc?

[mulls]

ask the older, wiser saints about their opinions, research, and pray.


dUSt, are you telling me that if it wasn't for the Church, you wouldn't be able to reason that killing babies is wrong, and attempting to create life outside of the natural order is wrong?


contraception is a little more tricky, but are you saying the ONLY way to figure this stuff out is to obey the Church's rulings?

[Aloysius]

the Church teaches that one can come to these conclusions based on human reason and their God-given moral conscience. But people can fool their conscience with their own biases and their own desires. The Church is a unmovable PILLAR (biblically discriptive word of the Church!) that when we stray because of our own desires and what not, we can cling onto the pillar. The Church informs our conscience so that we don't figure it out by our human reason influenced and tainted by our fallen nature's emotions and desires.

[dUSt]

[quote name='mulls' date='May 20 2004, 12:34 PM'] contraception is a little more tricky, but are you saying the ONLY way to figure this stuff out is to obey the Church's rulings? [/quote]
No, of course not.

Take 100 people, and 1/2 of them may decide contraception is morally okay, and the other 1/2 may decide it's not. In that case, 1/2 of the people got it right--so the Church is not the ONLY way to figure it out.

Same with cloning. Why not clone people? We are creating life. God is still the source of that creation--why wouldn't he want us to bring more life into this world? Where does the Bible teach us about this issue?

Again, take 100 people, and the majority might say it's morally wrong, but a good chunk will find it morally acceptable--yes, even after careful study of the Bible and honest prayer.

So where does that leave us? It leaves us in a situation where we are left in a personal state of moral decision making--with no guidance other than our own human (environmentally influenced) reasoning. So many factors, all the way down to what translation of the Bible one is using, will determine the outcome. There is no constant--too many variables. I don't believe this to be the way God intended it. I believe that he appointed apostles for a reason. If he intended for everyone to be equal as far as figuring out His teachings, why then did he only choose 12 specific men? Why did he not make everyone who believed in Him one of His apostles?

It's clear to me, that God's plan was a plan of order--of structure. It's the nature of this world--it's the nature of our human race--it's the nature of this universe. Everything has order. Everything has structure. Why would He make His Church any different?

For me, the Church is the only thing that makes a belief in God possible. The Church is what brings me to Jesus Christ--my savior. Without His church, I'd be lost--and I believe that this is exactly why He setup His Church the way He did.

God bless.

[mulls]

very reasonable answer Aloysius.

i'll stick to my human reason, my God-given moral conscience, prayer, fasting if necessary, and the influence of my brothers and sisters in Christ (including everyone here).

then i will form my own decision, as we have the freedom to do so.

if my decision is not in tune with God's will, i pray that He would smack me upside the head and let me know. otherwise, i must be willing to be held accountable for every decision i make, without excuse.

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='mulls' date='May 20 2004, 12:34 PM'] ask the older, wiser saints about their opinions, research, and pray.


dUSt, are you telling me that if it wasn't for the Church, you wouldn't be able to reason that killing babies is wrong, and attempting to create life outside of the natural order is wrong?


contraception is a little more tricky, but are you saying the ONLY way to figure this stuff out is to obey the Church's rulings? [/quote]
I have to agree because there is a large number of "Christians" (defiant Catholics and some Protestants) making their own decisions right now who support Abortion or "the Right to Choose" including many pastors, especially in the Black Church community where I live - this is why I believe there has to be an outside authority established by Christ to govern and control, because absolutly nothing supporting abortion comes from Christ, but from Satan the devil, so there is no room for human reasoning. I believe some things are either absolutly right or absolutly wrong, and it can't be reasoned or compromised.

[Thomas DeVol]

Some one say something about the relationship of the 3 PEACE churches, Brethern, Minninite and Quakers. I was born a birthright Quaker in 1944