Open/closed Brethern

[mulls]

anyone have anything else to add?

[dUSt]

The only thing I'd like to add is... why go back to the basics? Why simplify 2000 years of developed doctrine from generations of Christian theologians and saints? This world is 2000 years removed from the infancy of Christianity--so how can we expect to apply the same, undeveloped fundamentals to the current, modern day world?

You can basically look at it in two ways:

1. You believe Christ stopped leading the Church when He died in the flesh, and left us with the basics--which we should live by, but not develop (this might render the Bible invalid, as it wasn't formed until way after Christ died)
2. You believe Christ continues to lead the Church, even after His death, and that doctrine continues to develop in relation to the world and society

It seems like the Brethren group may lean towards #1. I tend to believe #2.

God bless.

[mulls]

hmm, then why so much emphasis in the Church on the early church fathers?

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote][b]Dust says:[/b]
2. You believe Christ continues to lead the Church, even after His death, and that doctrine continues to develop in relation to the world and society[/quote]

[b]Jason backs up Dust:[/b]

[quote][b]2 Thessalonians 2:15[/b]

Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were TAUGHT, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.[/quote]

[quote][b]Mulls says:[/b]
hmm, then why so much emphasis in the Church on the early church fathers?[/quote]

Jason says: look at Scripture quote

Pax

[dUSt]

Another analogy:

Medicine.

Medicine has been developing for 2000 years (this is an example people). It has had great advancements. Let's say that about 500 years ago, certain types of medicine (because of some bad doctors) started harming people. Medicine was almost to the point of doing more harm than good.

So... A group of medicine reformers began--but instead of using all the advancements in medicine up to that point, they decided to start over--losing 1500 years of advancement in the field.

In the meantime, the medicine reformers had an impact on mainstream/universal medicine--and forced it to get rid of all the bad doctors, and embrace the solid advancements that medicine had up to that point.

Conclusion: the universal medicine, as a whole, is better off, because of the struggles and lessons learned in it's advancement. The reformed medicine is still scrambling to catch up, but never will because they refuse to embrace the advancements that took place in teh universal medicine.



Or maybe I'm just lame. haha

[dUSt]

[quote name='mulls' date='May 18 2004, 05:28 PM'] hmm, then why so much emphasis in the Church on the early church fathers? [/quote]
I think there's equal emphasis on all of the theologians of the Church throughout all generations. St Justin Martyr, St Francis, St Aquinas, Newman, etc... We must always look at the Church as a whole.

[PedroX]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this already, but I believe that the Brethern groups are the spiritual descendants of Menlo Simons, the same as the Mennonites and Amish. Just a bit of doctrinal trivia (trivia is all I can manage today!)

peace...

[Crusader_4]

I am not positive at that although i know my brethern friends are very very mennonite in nature almost to the point of being completlye mennonite except without pacifism. Also in the Catholic Church we need to spend some time with the Early Church and focus because that is the roots of our faith it grounds the tree in which we are. From those roots the tree has grown into a beautiful one with many flowers such as Mother Teresea to St. Francis and many strong branches like Aquinas and Augustine. Yet the tree is still on the foundation and growing off the land called Christ. And the Trunk of this tree that digs straight into the ground is the Papacy.

[Ellenita]

Crusader, that's a really beautiful picture of the Catholic church - thanks!

[crusader1234]

lol yeah and the seeds are missionaries and the weeds are protestants hahahaha (crusader_4 is sitting next to me and cant believe im about to type this... im in a weird mood and think his metaphor is funny). Round-up is the devil. hahahahaha (just kidding)

[Ellenita]

Tsk, tsk Crusader1234!

We British are not given to expressing our emotions easily...it took me hours to work up the courage to tell Crusader_4 that I was moved by his metaphor....

[crusader1234]

oh, no ellenita its a very nice metaphor and had it been anyone else (that i dont actually know) i would take it to heart too. its just that i know william and its funny to hear from him. good job though will

[Katholikos]

QUOTE
American descendants of early German Protestants, the Bretheren are authentic Pietists. The inner spiritual life, piety, is cultivated in prayer and study of Scripture and through association with fellow believers. The local church is central. In it members are true brothers and sisters. The church claims their primary loyalty in a world that offers many societies for association. It is understood more as a community of people who love God and one another than as part of an organization or a body that formulates doctrine. Brethren do not emphasize tight doctrinal standards, rather, the spirit of God within each one, binding one another in love, takes precedence for them.

They live a simple, unadorned life. In their early decades in Europe and America, Brethren were separatists from the state and conventional churches. While not manifesting a judgmental attitude, they devote themselves to a purity that may set them apart from other Christians, as well as from general society.

From these German Pietists came Church of the Brethern (Conservative Dunkers), Brethren Church (Progressive Dunkers), Old German Baptist Brethren (Old Order Dunkers), Church of God (New Dunkers, disbanded in August 1962), and Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches.

Another group, historically unrelated..., known as the River Brethren, also took its ideology from the German Pietists.

Another -- the Plymouth Brethren -- is totally unrelated to any of these, being British rather than German in origin (See PLYMOUTH BRETHREN).
UNQUOTE

The denominations listed are: Bretheren Church (Ashland); Brethren in Christ Church; Church of the Brethren; Church of the United Brethren in Christ; Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches; Old German Baptist Brethren; United Zion Church. (This book does not list denominations of less than 200 members.)

Hutterian Brethern and Mennonite Brethren are also listed under Mennonites.

From the [i]Handbook of Denominations in the United States, Tenth Edition,[/i] Samuel S. Hill, 1995

So, I guess the question is, Mulls, what kind of Brethren are you?

Have I understood this correctly? You believe that God led you out of the Catholic Church and into the Assembly of God; but now He has led you out of the AOG Church and into the Brethren. I'm not commenting -- just asking if I got that right.

[Lil Red]

mulls, I am glad you are in a good place concerning your church life. and if God has led you out of the CC and into the AOG and now into the Brethren, who knows what he has in store for you in the future? I pray that in the future you will be as willing as you are now to go where HE wants you. God bless.

Edited May 20, 2004 by Lil Red Devil

[mulls]

[quote]So, I guess the question is, Mulls, what kind of Brethren are you?[/quote]

i think we're plymouth brethren, i'm not sure. doesn't matter to me, it's a church full of believers......manchester bible chapel.


[quote]Have I understood this correctly?  You believe that God led you out of the Catholic Church and into the Assembly of God; but now He has led you out of the AOG Church and into the Brethren.  I'm not commenting -- just asking if I got that right.[/quote]


i suppose you can say that. while i am thankful for the AG churches that i attended (great preaching, great worship, full of the joy of the Lord), i never really felt at home in either one. especially since i was constantly bouncing between being at school and home during breaks. i wasn't able to establish the personal relationships that i needed to in order to grow. when i came into the brethren assembly, i immediately encountered the love of the Lord from the congregation.

but as for your question....i really wasn't ever "in" the catholic church....i wasn't active, i was hardly a believer. i believe through a long setup of events, God was getting my attention, with the culmination being my giving my life to Him, which just happened to occur in an AG church.

i've been in the process of growing and being sanctified since then, and i believe i have found a place where i can grow, be instructed, and enjoy fruitful fellowship in a more personal atmosphere.

i'm hardly a proponent of "church shopping" like so many people tend to do. has God led me to this assembly? i hope so....i believe i am in the right place. i didn't leave the AG because of differences in doctrine or disputes about the bible or anything like that. (in fact, i never really "left" it, since i was never really a member. i was just attending church there) but i do plan on being a member of the bretheren assembly for a long time to come.


[quote]The local church is central.  In it members are true brothers and sisters.  The church claims their primary loyalty in a world that offers many societies for association.  It is understood more as a community of people who love God and one another than as part of an organization or a body that formulates doctrine.  Brethren do not emphasize tight doctrinal standards, rather, the spirit of God within each one, binding one another in love, takes precedence for them.[/quote]


i like that.