Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Pax domini bretheren sympathiesers and others... I was thinking something like this, 'who is who in this relationship really,is it GOD whom needs me or me whom needs GOD.' I believe it is me whom needs GOD not the other way around. Well thats my transmundane seriously spiritual post. What thinketh ye all on this matter, is my idea is correct, i believe it is but would also like to discuss it in case it is contrary to sacred tradition,holy scripture or infallible matters of faith and morals decreed by any of the holy fathers/popes.. And the 1st commandment love the lord your GOD for me is impossible without first allowing him to love me, and of course love is not just an airy fairy feeling though it might be at times,some need more of this and some less or something,i don't know. Onward christian souls. JESUS iz LORD. GOD is GOOD, GOD is LOVE, GOD SAVES. St paul. "persistance bears fruits of hope." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To Jesus Through Mary Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 God has no need of any of us. He is perfect Act and Being. He lacks nothing. We lack everything. It wasn't like God was lonely so he made us. He has always been in perfect communion in the Holy Trinity. It wasn't like he needed love, he IS love itself. It's not like we actually can bring him something that is of worth, "our righteousness is as filthy rags". God created us out of nothing. As St Faustina says, we are nothing plus sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma_Kateri Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 And yet he longs to be united with us so badly! It's hard to comprehend. I was reading something the other day that suggested that God made himself need us when he came as a human. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Gemma_Kateri' timestamp='1342927851' post='2457748'] And yet he longs to be united with us so badly! It's hard to comprehend. I was reading something the other day that suggested that God made himself need us when he came as a human. Thoughts? [/quote] Its possible he did to remind himself to not completely wipe us out for our sins like he did in noahs days, the new covenant. Unsure still if he actually needs us, but i know definately i need him. But than anything GOOD iz possible to GOD, if he needs us and it is truely GOOD than perhaps so.An old testament verse says that GOD desires to give all that we desire,but let me explain, But than jesus says that man was made for the sabbath and not the sabbath for the man, that hints to me that GOD created man for his own purpose. Like when we ask for something that is truely for our GOOD and the Greater good of mankind and the kingdom of heaven it still isn't GOD doing our will because if it is truely good he already had that in mind for us before we thought of it he seeded it, so by asking we are actually doing the will of GOD and not our own and we need GOD to accomplish his will in our lives. I can't explain what i'm getting at exactly but i guess he created us to need him not out of him being void of something but out of pure love to give and give and give again. I guess his nature is to create and GOD only knows how much else he has created that we can't see, even in another solar system, or in the kingdom of heaven spiritualy, Jesus says "there many rooms in my fathers house." He could wipe us out completely and start a new if he chose to or even wipe all that is seen and unseen out completely and still be in a giving relationship between the father,son and holy spirit like what to jesus through mary said. Edited July 22, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To Jesus Through Mary Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Gemma_Kateri' timestamp='1342927851' post='2457748'] And yet he longs to be united with us so badly! It's hard to comprehend. I was reading something the other day that suggested that God made himself need us when he came as a human. Thoughts? [/quote] If God were to create himself to need something, he would create himself imperfect because he would be lacking in his divinity. Which would mean he is not God. In each person we all in potency. I am in potency to speak Spanish- I am not there yet, but the possibility remains (something I am working for) or I am in potency to be humble- again something I have not acquired but have the possibility, through the grace of God of course. But when I speak in English I am in Act (aside from my errors ) or when I speak (unlike a baby who is still in potency of speaking). Ok so if God needed us in anyway he would be in potency, lacking something, not attained the perfect Act of his being or "Esse". St Thomas Aquinas and commentaries have much to say on this very issue, would be worth your time to read. Although you are right, in a mysterious was He does long for us. It is incredible really. He proves it time and time again in my life. It is so beautiful. [quote]he created us to need him not out of him being void of something but out of pure love to give and give and give again.[/quote] Beautiful- and so very true in my own life. I totally agree with you here and the statement of he created us to needed him. [quote]I guess his nature is to create[/quote] This is an interesting concept. I would be curious to hear others thoughts on this. I have never considered this before. I will have to see if St Thomas says anything on this matter. TJTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 The thought that popped into my head when reading the thread title was how comical this would be if it was a paraphrase of "Marley and Me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) [quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1343185553' post='2458626'] The thought that popped into my head when reading the thread title was how comical this would be if it was a paraphrase of "Marley and Me." [/quote] whom is marley ? And what is a paraphrase? Edited July 25, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Marx Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I haven't conversed with St. Thomas on the matter yet, but I would say that God's nature is not to create, but to Love. Creation is an expression of this Love, but not necessary (because God is a Trinity). And while it is true that God "longs for us," I don't think that longing is equivalent to needing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 [quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1343207809' post='2458716'] whom is marley ? And what is a paraphrase? [/quote] Marley and Me is a movie based on a book which was based on a true story of a family that has a misbehaved dog. A paraphrase is rephrasing a statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egidio Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Ok, lets start with basics. God is Infinite ( not finite, unlimited); God is Eternal (without beginning or end); God is omnipotent (allpowerful, almighty, unlimited in power and nothing that exists is more powerful than Him, nor could ever be more powerful than Him, that would be a contradiction); God is Omnipresent (everywhere, but God is NOT everything, as holds hindus, otherwise everything would be God!) God is totally "self-sufficient" (an extremely untheological word!). He needs no-one and nothing! The Love that exists within the Holy Trinity ('ad intra' this[u] IS[/u] a theological word!) is perfect and therefore "sufficient" for God, [i]because[/i] it is perfect, (hope you are following). Now what the original question was asking was basically what is the relationship of God with creatures, in theological terms, What is the nature of His 'ad extra' operations and relationships. Firstly we need to clarify a couple of ideas that have already arisen here. Is the nature of God to create? No. God is love, as has already been pointed out, and one could say that because of His love, He creates. However we must keep in mind a VERY important principle and fact of God, HE IS TOTALLY FREE!! (this fact has been attacked in every age!!) He can create or not create, He can create this type of thing or that type of thing, etc. God is not obliged to do anything, every one of His acts is totally free, in the fullest sense of the word free. (You could start another topic debateing what is freedom) Does God need us? No. But He desires above all things 'ad extra' (apart from His own Glorification), for us to be united with Him, now and for all eternity. This is obviously not exhaustive, but something for you to think about. AVE MARIA!!! PS. I've never heard of "Marley and Me" either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) I agree GOD does not need us paticularily but is obligated in the sense of holy desire to provide for his creations. Jesus says "why worry, if GOD provides for the birds of the air and other creatures how much more you if you believe." Thats not an exact reminission of what jesus said but words to that effect i think. And i believe this is a popular revelation or biblical (unsure), GOD always finnishes what he started, or perhaps this verse "i will be with you all days untill the consumation of the world." Like if GOD didn't desire for his creation to exist than wouldn't it all just dissapear instantly or fade slowly till it vanished. Edited August 1, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) The key to this may be in the original covenant with noah and how GOD saved a remenant of humanity to start over again. But another key may also be when jesus said that GOD created man for the sabbath and not sabbath for the man. (be warned i struggle with this verse and forget which way around it is.) In as such we see GOD creates man for his own purpose if man is willing to believe GOD has a design for each man and to seek that which is GODS purpose for his own life. And back to the original covenant with moses,and this is a curve ball that is off topic, The whole flooding of the earth bit could be looked at as a spiritual destruction possibly excess alcohol which ecclesisticus says destroys the soul. There was a chinese empire that was so great everyone started drinking excessively because they had absolutely everything in abundance and not much else to do, so they all started drinking excessively daily which led to the destruction of that empire. But aye alleluia thank GOD for the original covenant with noah that he would never destroy so many again. :edit: again be warned of all i say because i'm just an ordinary thinkier and have no teological degree nore do i know enough about such things am just an ordinary christian whom is seeking the the will of GOD. ie: do not think of anything i type as the truth, it is more like grasping at straws for a scrap of jesus clothing. Edited August 2, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma_Kateri Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 [quote name='Egidio' timestamp='1343730527' post='2460567'] Firstly we need to clarify a couple of ideas that have already arisen here. Is the nature of God to create? No. God is love, as has already been pointed out, and one could say that because of His love, He creates. [/quote] How is it not in the nature of God to create? He [i]is[/i] the creator. True love is always fruitful and creation naturally flows from love. Because God is love, it has to be in his nature to create. I've always been told that the love between Father and Son was so strong and powerful, that it literally manifests as the Holy Spirit, thus forming the trinity. Also, I was thinking more about God "needing" us. He certainly doesn't need us for anything but desires our cooperation in everything. He could have simply provided us with some other means of salvation, but he chose to come into the world through a human, as a human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 all this is very good because we are openly and honestly seeking the truth. I love this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 [quote name='Gemma_Kateri' timestamp='1342927851' post='2457748'] And yet he longs to be united with us so badly! It's hard to comprehend. I was reading something the other day that suggested that God made himself need us when he came as a human. Thoughts? [/quote] I was just thinking of an idea to this but have deleted it and decided to say 'I don't know.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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