BigJon16 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 [img]http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/110120/park-recs-pyramid_1500.jpg[/img] And that's all I have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthephysicist Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 So this is completely out of context, but thinking about when I see a woman dressed modestly, I feel like I'm seeing a princess (not in the prissy tiara sense but in the regal daughter of the King sense). I guess if I want to be modest, I should act like a prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthephysicist Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Sorry double post Edited July 19, 2012 by brianthephysicist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure I have much to contribute to this but my own experience. These aren't things I philosophize about much. They're things I intuit. Typically, when I see someone, I get an instant impression of them as either modest or immodest. Clothes make a difference, of course, but I think I really make that judgment (which I'm sure is sometimes wrong) by the person's eyes. And this goes for both men and women. Sure, men can definitely have that "I want to eat you" look in their eyes, and that is not only gross and offensive and sometimes scary, but downright immodest. But women can have that "I'm a royal b*$#& and I hate you just because you're competition for men" look in their eyes, and that ain't no better—even if she's all bundled up in the dead of a Southwestern Virginia winter. I think you really can see a person's soul (or, at least, I think [i]I[/i] can). So for me, what makes the difference between a modest person and an immodest person aren't the external things we typically think determine modesty (dress, speech, behavior), but the internal state of a person's soul, which shines through no matter what a person is wearing, saying, or doing. I do, however, second most of the points that have been made. I am thinking of one man in particular who mercilessly and deliberately tempts me every time I see him. (And yes, he is a nominal Catholic!) He doesn't go bare-chested (thank God), but he does leave the top few buttons open, is constantly making reference to sex, occasionally comments on parts of my body, and is always giving me "those looks". You might think such a man would be disgusting, and he would be, if he weren't brilliant and painfully articulate and ueber-educated and hard-working and all the other things I seek in a man. Possibly it's the fundamental attraction (i.e., the "chemistry") that a woman feels with a man that makes his immodesty potentially dangerous. Otherwise, it's just repulsive. But since you can never know whether a woman feels a fundamental attraction to you, you ought to be careful about such things with ALL women. All that being said, I think I remain convinced that (im)modesty is a state of the soul, not an externality. If your soul is in good order, you're probably fine. Thus, if being around some woman causes you to begin behaving in ways you find questionable, don't ask yourself about the behavior until you get to the root of the problem deeper down. BTW: I heard one night on some show on EWTN radio two men—I think a priest and some other guy—talking about just this topic. Sorry I can't remember which show it was. Anyway, they talked a lot about modesty AMONG men, i.e., not bragging about sex, etc. I do think that's a good point: the modesty among men. But since I've never been a man among men, I don't have much to say about that... I just found it really interesting as a window onto a world that I don't live in. I have to say: As soon as I read the OP, I couldn't help but think that part of what makes this topic so difficult is the confusion of gender roles in our society. I am staunchly anti-feminist, and I see a lot of confusion among men about [i]how to be men[/i] these days. I think that, when women abandoned traditional femininity, men lost their sense of identity, too. Women and men are complements, yin and yang, and if one is lost, the other will be, too. There are evangelical Christian movements to re-define masculinity in a positive way, and I've sometimes enjoyed episodes of "The New Man" podcast. But I think the fact that these things even exist is clear evidence that what used to come naturally to us is no longer obvious. We're not sure how men and women fit together anymore. So naturally we're not sure how men are to be men and women to be women. I think you can't determine anything for either in isolation from the other. Great topic, brianthephysicist. Thanks! Edited July 19, 2012 by curiousing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I just realized that, on that Swanson Pyramid of Greatness (which I'd never seen before, and which is [i]hilarious[/i]), "Romantic Love" is on the same line with all of the ANIMAL MEATS. Eww. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Curiousing, thanks for your honesty re: that guy. I think a lot of us ladies have met him before in our own lives. I have a question -- this is for the group and is genuine, not meant to be accusatory. Curiousing says that she immediately makes a judgment, on sight, about whether a person is modest or not. This isn't the first time I've heard people make the judgment of modesty this way. What I wonder is if it's [i]moral[/i] to do that. Let me explain: as I'm starting to change the way I dress, and getting a better sense of what is and isn't modest in my personal life, I find myself scoping out other women around me. I note their outfit and say "She's modest." or "She's immodest. I wonder if she knows." I feel wrong about that ... for judging someone without knowing what their intention is. I've seen many very devout, daily Mass-attending women show cleavage, etc. I know that for me, I just had no idea. I wasn't intending to be that way. Note that I'm not specifically asking about women, but making the judgment about other people generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) [quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1342676355' post='2456959'] This isn't the first time I've heard people make the judgment of modesty this way. What I wonder is if it's [i]moral[/i] to do that. [/quote] I feel about this the way I feel about stereotyping. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with stereotyping: In a world full of information that our tiny minds can't possibly process, it helps us to manage the information to make decisions quickly as the world demands. But, if you continue behaving according to a stereotype even after you've received information that indicates the stereotype doesn't hold, that's when you become a racist/sexist/etc. jerk (which is immoral, to tie it to the discussion ;-). I think it can't be helped, in other words. I look at someone, and I "just see it". But if I then discover that that person is actually deeply humble and modest in heart, the first impression goes out the window. In this way, the flash judgment just functions as a "warning" regarding who might be safe to interact with and who I ought to stay away from. But I am forced to interact with "dangerous" people all the time (painfully eloquent guy included), and over the course of time, I sometimes discover my initial judgment was wrong. (Although, I'm sorry to say it usually goes the other way: I think someone modest, and then discover they are not at all. Ahhh... empty propriety... [sigh]) Then I typically tell the person what I thought to free my conscience. Whether it's immoral... well, if you have no control over doing it, if it's just "evolved Christian instinct" to protect the state of your soul, then no, I don't think it's immoral. It'd be immoral to start nastily judging the person based solely on an intuition from afar. (Which I sometimes do, especially when someone walks into Mass half-naked. That stuff I confess.) But I don't feel I judge most of the time. I just make a mental note of: "Caution" or "Safe". That's how it works in my head, anyway... I'm interested to hear others' perspectives on this. (Though let us not forget this IS a thread on male modesty! Let's not do brianthephysicist an injustice...) I should addend: Showing cleavage, to me, in this society, isn't necessarily a sign of immodesty. It might just be a sign of over-100-degree temperatures and a background/upbringing/education/worldview that doesn't connect dress with "good personhood" in any way. I lived in Israel for 7 years, and people run around wearing practically nothing, but some of them are impressively modest of heart. So, as I said before, it's not in the dress, speech, or behavior for me. It's in the eyes. At least, that first impression is... Edited July 19, 2012 by curiousing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Modest: [left]having [color=#333333][font=verdana]or [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]showing [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]a [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]moderate [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]or [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]humble [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]estimate [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]of [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]one's [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]merits, [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]importance, [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]etc.; [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]free [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]from [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]vanity, [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]egotism, [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]boastfulness, [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]or [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]great [/font][/color][color=#333333][font=verdana]pretensions.[/font][/color][/left] [left][size=4][color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][color=#7B7B7B][b]2.[/b][/color] [font=verdana]free from ostentation or showy extravagance: [font=Georgia, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][i]a modest house.[/i][/font][/font][/font][/color][/size][/left] [left][size=4][color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][color=#7B7B7B][b]3.[/b][/color] [font=verdana]having or showing regard for the decencies of behavior, speech, dress, etc.; decent: [font=Georgia, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][i]a modest neckline on a dress.[/i][/font][/font][/font][/color][/size][/left] [left][size=4][color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][color=#7B7B7B][b]4.[/b][/color] [font=verdana]limited or moderate in amount, extent, etc.: [font=Georgia, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][i]a modestincrease in salary.[/i][/font][/font] [font=verdana][color=#0055BB][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][b][i]Synonyms[/i][/b][/font][/color][/font] [font=verdana][b]1. [/b] retiring, unassuming. [b]1, 2. [/b] unpretentious, unobtrusive. [b]3.[/b] pure, virtuous. Modest, demure, prudish imply conformity to propriety and decorum, and a distaste for anything coarse or loud.Modest implies [color=#0055BB]a[/color] becoming shyness, sobriety, and proper behavior: [font=Georgia, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][i]a modest, self-respecting person. [/i][/font]Demure implies abashful, quiet simplicity, staidness, and decorum; but can also indicate an assumed or affected modesty: [font=Georgia, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][i]a demure young chorusgirl. [/i][/font]Prudish suggests an exaggeratedly self-conscious modestyor propriety in behavior or conversation of one who wishes to bethought of as easily shocked and who often is intolerant: [font=Georgia, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][i]a prudishobjection to a harmless remark. [/i][/font][/font][/font][/color][/size][/left] Eyes may be the window to the soul, but some people have permanent blinds up, its much safer to think this person is another child of God, with an immortal soul, just like me. People are like books, you shouldn't do judge a book by its cover, you don't know its story from looking at the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'm sorry, did Brian just say that he has to be careful not to be immodest in his dancing? I think we're going to need video evidence to dissect and discuss whether or not his sweet moves could cause scandalous behavior.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthephysicist Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1342707623' post='2457007'] I'm sorry, did Brian just say that he has to be careful not to be immodest in his dancing? I think we're going to need video evidence to dissect and discuss whether or not his sweet moves could cause scandalous behavior.... [/quote] Well, this was one: (Warning ponies dancing immodestly) [spoiler][img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120531213253/villains/images/a/aa/50439_-_animated_dancing_gif_spike.gif[/img][/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) I don't know you....... Edited July 19, 2012 by MissyP89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 [quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1342716591' post='2457049'] I don't know you....... [/quote] Really? I thought you two were dating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 wait I'm confused, is Ed siding with the peace and love bra-burning hippies? Or does he believe in the brassiere? This is of utmost importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Modesty for this man is to not get infuriated and unleash a good dose of hell on someone, ie: to leave the hell bit to GOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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