God's Love Different (sorry If This Has Been Asked Before)

[KnightofChrist]

Here is the answer to question if the soul can be destroyed or likewise be mortal.

"We condemn and reject all those who insist that the intellectual soul is mortal, or that it is only one among all human beings, and those who suggest doubts on this topic. For the soul not only truly exists of itself and essentially as the form of the human body, as is said in the canon of our predecessor of happy memory, pope Clement V, promulgated in the general council of Vienne, but it is also immortal; and further, for the enormous number of bodies into which it is infused individually, it can and ought to be and is multiplied. This is clearly established from the gospel when the Lord says, They cannot kill the soul; and in another place, Whoever hates his life in this world, will keep it for eternal life and when he promises eternal rewards and eternal punishments to those who will be judged according to the merits of their life; otherwise, the incarnation and other mysteries of Christ would be of no benefit to us, nor would resurrection be something to look forward to, and the saints and the just would be (as the Apostle says) the most miserable of all people.

And since truth cannot contradict truth, we define that every statement contrary to the enlightened truth of the faith is totally false and we strictly forbid teaching otherwise to be permitted. We decree that all those who cling to erroneous statements of this kind, thus sowing heresies which are wholly condemned, should be avoided in every way and punished as detestable and odious heretics and infidels who are undermining the catholic faith." -- Fifth Lateran Council of 1513

Edited July 27, 2012 by KnightofChrist

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

i have come to the conclusion that favoritism is a normal human condition. Unsure if it's a normal GOD condition, i think he hopes for us all the same amount, loves us all the same amount,and has faith in us all the same amount, it just depends how much of this hope,love and faith one is willing to believe in to recieve in. My conclusion may change in the future if finding it to be wrong, i don't know. But you all have favorite movies,favorite sports,favored animals etc etc. I think we as humans need favoritism to a degree because we need something to love for we are created in the image and likeness of GOD, we too need to love but where not GOD so we have not an infinite reserve of love so i guess we need to ration it out or something, i don't know just musing on the subject,typing out loud.

JESUS iz LORD
Onward christian souls.
GOD is good, GOD is love,GOD SAVES.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1343448310' post='2459617']
i have come to the conclusion that favoritism is a normal human condition. Unsure if it's a normal GOD condition, i think he hopes for us all the same amount, loves us all the same amount,and has faith in us all the same amount, it just depends how much of this hope,love and faith one is willing to believe in to recieve in. My conclusion may change in the future if finding it to be wrong, i don't know. But you all have favorite movies,favorite sports,favored animals etc etc. I think we as humans need favoritism to a degree because we need something to love for we are created in the image and likeness of GOD, we too need to love but where not GOD so we have not an infinite reserve of love so i guess we need to ration it out or something, i don't know just musing on the subject,typing out loud.

JESUS iz LORD
Onward christian souls.
GOD is good, GOD is love,GOD SAVES.
[/quote]
Me too! Apparently!

Edited July 28, 2012 by Mark of the Cross

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Amory' timestamp='1343417996' post='2459411']
It's pretty clear that the Virgin Mary, St. John the Baptist, and St. Peter were more beloved by God than I am.
[/quote]

I agree and find it telling that I've not seen anyone make the argument that God loves Mary equally to us all. Perhaps someone has and I just missed it.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1343505558' post='2459791']
I agree and find it telling that I've not seen anyone make the argument that God loves Mary equally to us all. Perhaps someone has and I just missed it.
[/quote]
Apparently you did!

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Amory' timestamp='1343418346' post='2459413']
It's not a very compelling response for someone simply to assert, "He (or she) wasn't infallible," whenever he disagrees with a Doctor of the Church. Especially with the intellectuals and academics such as Aquinas who backed their arguments up with extensive arguments, one really needs to respond to the Doctor's reasoning, pointing out why its mistaken.
[/quote]
Actually that would be a good point. Not meaning to come across as facetious toward Knight, Even though we agree with very little I admire his tenacity in his faith, but I can get vaguely related document dumps by googling. If we are going to accept whatever whoever said without tossing things around then why go on forums? Just read books.
[quote name='Amory' timestamp='1343418901' post='2459419']
Anyway, the idea that God loves everybody equally seems to be based more in some misguided (post-)Enlightenment egalitarianism than in any authentically Catholic line of thought from Scripture, the Fathers, the Doctors of the Church, etc.
[/quote]
The thing is on forums is that that is the common response without actually entering into the debate by quoting references opposed on a point by point basis and that if you disagree you are somehow a heritic to be anathema. But when something is pointed out against what they claim, suddenly the Church, the CCCs etc. are not infallible. Can you actually contribute to the debate by addressing Ice_nines question without making troll type statements?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1343509543' post='2459801']

Apparently you did!
[/quote]

Will you be responding to post #96?

[Mark of the Cross]

I'll start the ball rolling again. Bearing in mind my example of the disabled child. On what basis does God love someone more than others?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1343511109' post='2459805']
I'll start the ball rolling again. Bearing in mind my example of the disabled child. On what basis does God love someone more than others?
[/quote]

So no?

[KnightofChrist]

If God loves all His creatures equally (but different) what love has He shown all that is equal to (but different) than the love of being saved from sin at conception, carry the Lord God of Hosts in her womb, His taking on her flesh, and being made the Queen of Angels and of heaven?

Edited July 28, 2012 by KnightofChrist

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1343511378' post='2459808']
So no?
[/quote]
Saw your post after my last one and didn't have time.
[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1343123744' post='2458388']
I don't know how to answer all your concerns. I believe any human words used to describe the love of God are insufficient.
[/quote]
Thank you! Because in doing so you would be judging God and as a faulty human you/we don't have the ability to do that.


[quote]What is grace? Can it be said that grace is the love of God bestowed upon us as a gift?[/quote]
I did a google on grace and apart from it's basic interpretation of showing manners and respect it has complex religious definitions but I don't think i would use grace as a synonym for Love. Certainly grace would be bestowed upon Mary above all else. If love is a grace (gift) then it means God has the capacity to not love.


[quote] I can think of no other creature that has received more special and greater graces from God than those He has given to Mary. She was conceived without the taint of Original Sin, and free from sin the whole of her life upon the earth. She conceived within her womb the King of kings and the Lord of lords and He took on her flesh. As she raised Him He was subject to her. She uniquely shared in the agony and sufferings of His sorrowful passion. She is the Queen of Heaven, Queen of Angels, her prayers are always and automatically answered by Christ. There are move proofs that she has received greater love and graces than we have received. What is important is that it is ok that Love favors her more or greater than us. Nor should it bother us if He should favor others above us.[/quote]
I agree! The reason I have been reluctant to address this, is that I did not want to come across as having minimised the blessed Virgin in any way. But I believe that the Church teaches that saints are '[i] a disciple who has lived a life of exemplary fidelity to the Lord[/i]' Many Catholics pray to statues of Mary and hence we are often called statue worshippers. Praying to saints is fine as long as one bears in mind that saints have the power to grant you nothing! They can however intercede on your behalf. But one must always bear in mind that...

[i]Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me. [[url="http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=14&l=6#x"]John 14:6[/url]][/i]

If I take pity on the child in a wheel chair drooling at the mouth and can hardly hold its head up, will my prayer have less swaying power than St Whoever? I would imagine that the King of love would only consider the merits of his purpose for the child and his compassion toward it!

[i]Mark 1:40And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down said to him: If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. [url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=48&ch=1&l=41#x"][41][/url] And [b]Jesus having compassion on him[/b], stretched forth his hand; and touching him, saith to him: I will. Be thou made clean.[/i]

Jesus granted this mans wish by his compassion not by any position of the man.

[i]Romans 5:6 For why did Christ, when as yet we were weak, according to the time, die for the ungodly? [url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=52&ch=5&l=7#x"][7][/url] For scarce for a just man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man some one would dare to die. [url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=52&ch=5&l=8#x"][8][/url] But God commendeth his charity towards us; because when as yet we were sinners, according to the time, [url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=52&ch=5&l=9#x"][9][/url] Christ died for us; much more therefore, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from wrath through him.[/i]
Did Christ only partially die for some of us?



Now you answer my questions. On what basis does God love some more than others?
He loves a saint more than the child in the wheel chair drooling from the mouth because the saint can do more pleasing things? Circular love. Both only have what God gave them and he wanted to do a wonderful work through the child as well as the saint.
One has more faith than another?
You've already said that faith is a grace (gift) from God.
Ice_nines question:-If God loves a person more, then he loves someone less. Which means his love for that person in not perfect and has a slightly less importance to salvation. Then God is not perfect?

[quote name='Amory' timestamp='1343417996' post='2459411']
It's pretty clear that the Virgin Mary, St. John the Baptist, and St. Peter were more beloved by God than I am.
[/quote]
Hows so? St Peter denied Christ 3 times. This was an example of human failure and how Jesus still loves you. I reckon I know a few people who would ask to die next to Jesus on a cross rather than deny him. Does God love St. Peter more? There was a missionary travelling in ancient China who rather than hand over a woman travelling with them gave up his life even knowing that they would still take her anyway.
I know that there are scriptures that refer to the deciple that Jesus loved, which gives the impression that Jesus loved some more than others. But was this a correct translation? Jesus was God as a human with human characteristics. A human can favour a personality more than another. ie. Jesus may favour a person who is more chatty and likes his company more than a quiet one who is shy. To the witness this may appear that Jesus loved him more.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Mark of the Cross

[KnightofChrist]

Mark, the love of God and the grace of God are inseparable. The two therefore can be synonymous. One cannot exist without the other. Both are free and undeserved gifts of Love Himself. Salvation is grace and that grace, like all graces is a gift of love from Love. If grace isn't love then "for He so loved the world He sent His only begotten Son" loses a lot of meaning.

You've not answered my questions. You've just denied that grace is love or attempted, in error, to separate the two so you could avoid admitting God loves Mary more.

[Anomaly]

So succinctly, if God interacts with [s]the ants[/s] us, God will do what God wants to do: Give, take, love, grace, punish, burden, bless, let live, let die, show, hide, forgive, condemn, heal, afflict, respond, ignore;

regardless of your feelings, needs, wants, desires, opinion, or ability to comprehend, recognize, identify, understand, accept.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Anomaly

[fides' Jack]

Haven't read any posts here in a while, but there's still a fallacious idea running around that somehow the level of God's love for us might be dependent on our own deeds. Regardless of whether or not that's true, I believe that God could love someone more or less than another based on nothing other than His own intentions.

As God, He certainly has every right to, even for no reason at all.

[Ice_nine]

I think it would be contrary to God's nature to do something "without any reason at all."

This doesn't mean we have to understand the reason/s, but I think it's dangerous to say that God can do whatever He wants. I mean He [i]can[/i], but He is also bound by His perfect nature so there are some things He won't do.

Such as doing things for no reason at all.