God's Love Different (sorry If This Has Been Asked Before)

[sixpence]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1342818329' post='2457356']
I don't think a person can choose to love.
i fell in love with my wife, I didn't make a conscious choice.
[/quote]

hmm... but then when things get tough and you get bored of each other and decide to divorce you are going to say "it's not my fault" instead of making a conscious effort to love. There are many types of love, you may be confusing infatuation?

[Jaime]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1342840444' post='2457438']
Then you're reply makes no sense.
[/quote]

made sense to me

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1342842140' post='2457447']


made sense to me
[/quote]

Not in relation to what I originally stated. Doubt in a belief doesn't make that belief any less an object of the will and intellect, nor do doubts in a belief and the want to over come those doubts make the belief into something that is contrary to the intellect.

Edited July 21, 2012 by KnightofChrist

[Jaime]

you are reply makes no sense

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1342844005' post='2457454']
you are reply makes no sense
[/quote]

Haha I see what you did there, and what I did there too.

I hate when I do that, but oh well.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1342843027' post='2457450']


Not in relation to what I originally stated. Doubt in a belief doesn't make that belief any less an object of the will and intellect, nor do doubts in a belief and the want to over come those doubts make the belief into something that is contrary to the intellect.
[/quote]I disagree. Start another thread and let this one return to IceNine's original topic. Does God love everyone the same? Does it matter if we believe in god or not? Dies God treat us the same? If not, does that mean he lives some differently or less?

[Ice_nine]

I was kinda joking about the topic being hijacked. I don't think God loves Hassan more than Hasan, and I know that he doesn't love either of them as much as me.

Tangenting. It happens, but when it does I just assume no one really wants to talk about the topic and the lols are fine. IF people do want to talk about it then gr8! Lets talk about it

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1342845077' post='2457460']
I disagree. Start another thread and let this one return to IceNine's original topic. Does God love everyone the same? Does it matter if we believe in god or not? Dies God treat us the same? If not, does that mean he lives some differently or less?
[/quote]

Really? I thought you did agree. Anyway no God does not love everyone the same.
-------

" Article 3. Whether God loves all things equally?

Objection 1. It seems that God loves all things equally. For it is said: "He hath equally care of all" (Wisdom 6:8). But God's providence over things comes from the love wherewith He loves them. Therefore He loves all things equally.

Objection 2. Further, the love of God is His essence. But God's essence does not admit of degree; neither therefore does His love. He does not therefore love some things more than others.

Objection 3. Further, as God's love extends to created things, so do His knowledge and will extend. But God is not said to know some things more than others; nor will one thing more than another. Neither therefore does He love some things more than others.

On the contrary, Augustine says (Tract. in Joan. cx): "God loves all things that He has made, and amongst them rational creatures more, and of these especially those who are members of His only-begotten Son Himself."

I answer that, Since to love a thing is to will it good, in a twofold way anything may be loved more, or less. In one way on the part of the act of the will itself, which is more or less intense. In this way God does not love some things more than others, because He loves all things by an act of the will that is one, simple, and always the same. In another way on the part of the good itself that a person wills for the beloved. In this way we are said to love that one more than another, for whom we will a greater good, though our will is not more intense. In this way we must needs say that God loves some things more than others. For since God's love is the cause of goodness in things, as has been said (2), no one thing would be better than another, if God did not will greater good for one than for another.

Reply to Objection 1. God is said to have equally care of all, not because by His care He deals out equal good to all, but because He administers all things with a like wisdom and goodness.

Reply to Objection 2. This argument is based on the intensity of love on the part of the act of the will, which is the divine essence. But the good that God wills for His creatures, is not the divine essence. Therefore there is no reason why it may not vary in degree.

Reply to Objection 3. To understand and to will denote the act alone, and do not include in their meaning objects from the diversity of which God may be said to know or will more or less, as has been said with respect to God's love.

Article 4. Whether God always loves more the better things?

Objection 1. It seems that God does not always love more the better things. For it is manifest that Christ is better than the whole human race, being God and man. But God loved the human race more than He loved Christ; for it is said: "He spared not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all" (Romans 8:32). Therefore God does not always love more the better things.

Objection 2. Further, an angel is better than a man. Hence it is said of man: "Thou hast made him a little less than the angels" (Psalm 8:6). But God loved men more than He loved the angels, for it is said: "Nowhere doth He take hold of the angels, but of the seed of Abraham He taketh hold" (Hebrews 2:16). Therefore God does not always love more the better things.

Objection 3. Further, Peter was better than John, since he loved Christ more. Hence the Lord, knowing this to be true, asked Peter, saying: "Simon, son of John, lovest thou Me more than these?" Yet Christ loved John more than He loved Peter. For as Augustine says, commenting on the words, "Simon, son of John, lovest thou Me?": "By this very mark is John distinguished from the other disciples, not that He loved him only, but that He loved him more than the rest." Therefore God does not always love more the better things.

Objection 4. Further, the innocent man is better than the repentant, since repentance is, as Jerome says (Cap. 3 in Isa.), "a second plank after shipwreck." But God loves the penitent more than the innocent; since He rejoices over him the more. For it is said: "I say to you that there shall be joy in heaven upon the one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance" (Luke 15:7). Therefore God does not always love more the better things.

Objection 5. Further, the just man who is foreknown is better than the predestined sinner. Now God loves more the predestined sinner, since He wills for him a greater good, life eternal. Therefore God does not always love more the better things.

On the contrary, Everything loves what is like it, as appears from (Sirach 13:19): "Every beast loveth its like." Now the better a thing is, the more like is it to God. Therefore the better things are more loved by God.

I answer that, It must needs be, according to what has been said before, that God loves more the better things . For it has been shown (2, 3), that God's loving one thing more than another is nothing else than His willing for that thing a greater good: because God's will is the cause of goodness in things; and the reason why some things are better than others, is that God wills for them a greater good. Hence it follows that He loves more the better things.

Reply to Objection 1. God loves Christ not only more than He loves the whole human race, but more than He loves the entire created universe: because He willed for Him the greater good in giving Him "a name that is above all names," in so far as He was true God. Nor did anything of His excellence diminish when God delivered Him up to death for the salvation of the human race; rather did He become thereby a glorious conqueror: "The government was placed upon His shoulder," according to Isaiah 9:6.

Reply to Objection 2. God loves the human nature assumed by the Word of God in the person of Christ more than He loves all the angels; for that nature is better, especially on the ground of the union with the Godhead. But speaking of human nature in general, and comparing it with the angelic, the two are found equal, in the order of grace and of glory: since according to Revelation 21:17, the measure of a man and of an angel is the same. Yet so that, in this respect, some angels are found nobler than some men, and some men nobler than some angels. But as to natural condition an angel is better than a man. God therefore did not assume human nature because He loved man, absolutely speaking, more; but because the needs of man were greater; just as the master of a house may give some costly delicacy to a sick servant, that he does not give to his own son in sound health.

Reply to Objection 3. This doubt concerning Peter and John has been solved in various ways. Augustine interprets it mystically, and says that the active life, signified by Peter, loves God more than the contemplative signified by John, because the former is more conscious of the miseries of this present life, and therefore the more ardently desires to be freed from them, and depart to God. God, he says, loves more the contemplative life, since He preserves it longer. For it does not end, as the active life does, with the life of the body.

Some say that Peter loved Christ more in His members, and therefore was loved more by Christ also, for which reason He gave him the care of the Church; but that John loved Christ more in Himself, and so was loved more by Him; on which account Christ commended His mother to his care. Others say that it is uncertain which of them loved Christ more with the love of charity, and uncertain also which of them God loved more and ordained to a greater degree of glory in eternal life. Peter is said to have loved more, in regard to a certain promptness and fervor; but John to have been more loved, with respect to certain marks of familiarity which Christ showed to him rather than to others, on account of his youth and purity. While others say that Christ loved Peter more, from his more excellent gift of charity; but John more, from his gifts of intellect. Hence, absolutely speaking, Peter was the better and more beloved; but, in a certain sense, John was the better, and was loved the more. However, it may seem presumptuous to pass judgment on these matters; since "the Lord" and no other "is the weigher of spirits" (Proverbs 16:2).

Reply to Objection 4. The penitent and the innocent are related as exceeding and exceeded. For whether innocent or penitent, those are the better and better loved who have most grace. Other things being equal, innocence is the nobler thing and the more beloved. God is said to rejoice more over the penitent than over the innocent, because often penitents rise from sin more cautious, humble, and fervent. Hence Gregory commenting on these words (Hom. 34 in Ev.) says that, "In battle the general loves the soldier who after flight returns and bravely pursues the enemy, more than him who has never fled, but has never done a brave deed."

Or it may be answered that gifts of grace, equal in themselves, are more as conferred on the penitent, who deserved punishment, than as conferred on the innocent, to whom no punishment was due; just as a hundred pounds [marcoe] are a greater gift to a poor man than to a king.

Reply to Objection 5. Since God's will is the cause of goodness in things, the goodness of one who is loved by God is to be reckoned according to the time when some good is to be given to him by divine goodness. According therefore to the time, when there is to be given by the divine will to the predestined sinner a greater good, the sinner is better; although according to some other time he is the worse; because even according to some time he is neither good nor bad.

source: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1020.htm#article3 "

[Anomaly]

Bull poo

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

GOD may love us differently in the matter of that he knows us so intimately that he will never give to another one what another one can handle better, lets say you are better at archery, than the lord is not going to give you a long sword, though the devil through someone else or direct deception or your own deception you could be convinced that your meant to have a long sword when your actually an archer. I only and answering like this because of the biblical verse that states GOD will never give us more than we can handle (words to that effect hopefully.) I know Jesus states he has a favoured disciple in two or three cases but since it is the love of GOD we need to play out of the ball bark of the actual meaning of paticular words. This favoured may in truth be favoured for a paticular mission. St paul states the body can not be divided, a foot has it's paticular place as does the hands etc etc without one or the other the body would not be complete. Search a bit on where jesus says his beloved disciple or favoured disciple and find out what sacred tradition teaches on this matter and if in deed there is any teachings,yet. I would also like to know, but am happy in my personal discernment of this matter at present.

Onward christian souls.
JESUS iz LORD.
GOD is GOOD,God is LOVE,God SAVES.

JC "seek and ye shall find,knock and the door will be opened." "be baptised and believe and you will be saved."

P.s. Thinking of the "be baptised and believe and you will be saved,if not you will be condemned." talking of word play what if this condemnation doesn't mean eternal damnation but simply an easier target for the devil and it's legion of demons, or possibly an easier target to ones own deceptions, who knows? Just tossing up other possiblities of what jesus may have meant when tossing up this word condemnation.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1342846348' post='2457471']
I was kinda joking about the topic being hijacked. I don't think God loves Hassan more than Hasan, and I know that he doesn't love either of them as much as me.

Tangenting. It happens, but when it does I just assume no one really wants to talk about the topic and the lols are fine. IF people do want to talk about it then gr8! Lets talk about it
[/quote]

True humility, Alleluia. I have added you to friends now, unsure why i hadn't yet.

[Ice_nine]

youthinkIhaven'talreadyseenAquinas'sresponsewhydoyouthinkIaskedthisquestiononaninteractivephorumsillybear?

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1342851876' post='2457488']
GOD may love us differently in the matter of that he knows us so intimately that he will never give to another one what another one can handle better, lets say you are better at archery, than the lord is not going to give you a long sword, though the devil through someone else or direct deception or your own deception you could be convinced that your meant to have a long sword when your actually an archer. I only and answering like this because of the biblical verse that states GOD will never give us more than we can handle (words to that effect hopefully.) I know Jesus states he has a favoured disciple in two or three cases but since it is the love of GOD we need to play out of the ball bark of the actual meaning of paticular words. This favoured may in truth be favoured for a paticular mission. St paul states the body can not be divided, a foot has it's paticular place as does the hands etc etc without one or the other the body would not be complete. Search a bit on where jesus says his beloved disciple or favoured disciple and find out what sacred tradition teaches on this matter and if in deed there is any teachings,yet. I would also like to know, but am happy in my personal discernment of this matter at present.

Onward christian souls.
JESUS iz LORD.
GOD is GOOD,God is LOVE,God SAVES.

JC "seek and ye shall find,knock and the door will be opened." "be baptised and believe and you will be saved."

P.s. Thinking of the "be baptised and believe and you will be saved,if not you will be condemned." talking of word play what if this condemnation doesn't mean eternal damnation but simply an easier target for the devil and it's legion of demons, or possibly an easier target to ones own deceptions, who knows? Just tossing up other possiblities of what jesus may have meant when tossing up this word condemnation.
[/quote]

P.s.s. I would just like to add to what i have said as to what condemnation may sometimes mean in holy scripture and to clarify. If we are not slaves to love and peace / GOD , than we may be slaves to other things like t.v , money, lust and a whole range of other things that aren't GOD, that take the appearance of GOOD/peace and love. And i guess i should clarify my position again that all i have posted may not be the exact truth because i am not GOD and should be prayerd,examined and possibly also talked about.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1342854794' post='2457494']
youthinkIhaven'talreadyseenAquinas'sresponsewhydoyouthinkIaskedthisquestiononaninteractivephorumsillybear?
[/quote]

I was trying to appease Anormaly cuz he had his upset face on cuz we weren't on topic. Now I've caused you to disreguard the use of your s p a c e bar, I can't win for trying. But maybe someone else hasn't read Aquina's stance on this yet and it will help them.

Aquina's stance would my answer to the question. God gives more love to those who are more like Him. Those who's image of God burns brighter than are loved more than those who have dimmed that image with unrepentant sin. I believe it was Bishop Sheen who said something along the lines that at judgement Christ will look for His reflection within us, those in whom He sees Himself reflected back will be saved, those in whom He does not see Himself reflected back He will know not.

Edited July 21, 2012 by KnightofChrist

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1342859556' post='2457506']
I was trying to appease Anormaly cuz he had his upset face on cuz we weren't on topic. Now I've caused you to disreguard the use of your s p a c e bar, I can't win for trying. But maybe someone else hasn't read Aquina's stance on this yet and it will help them.

Aquina's stance would my answer to the question. God gives more love to those who are more like Him. Those who image of God burns brighter than those who have dimmed that image with unrepentant sin. I believe it was Bishop Sheen who said something along the lines that at judgement Christ will look for His reflection within us, those in whom He sees Himself reflected back will be saved, those in whom He does not see Himself reflected back He will know not.
[/quote]

Didn't JESUS also say "you hypocrites, tax collectors and prostitutes will get into heaven before you." I only say this coz what is close to christ anyway, it isn't something we can will with good works in prayer,word and deed, although these are all apart of the redemtive mission. It is not nescisarily something we can earn but something we can be open to recieve from GOD, his love that is.