KnightofChrist Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1342815727' post='2457341'] Sorry, it is not a choice. [/quote] Faith is an object of the will and intellect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1342816559' post='2457348'] I beg to differ. In its most pure form, love is a deliberate choice. It's not a feeling; it's not an emotion. It's a decision. Still, if Cappie ever sees this thread, I would love to get his take on it. [/quote] You are correct love is an act of the will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1342816566' post='2457349'] Faith is an object of the will and intellect. [/quote]In that sense, Faith is a willfull disregard of intellect. For example, I'm sure you are familar with the prayer: "God, I believe in You. Please help me with my disbelief." Quite circular logic, donchano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevil Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1342816559' post='2457348'] I beg to differ. In its most pure form, love is a deliberate choice. [/quote] I don't think a person can choose to love. i fell in love with my wife, I didn't make a conscious choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 [quote name='jaime' timestamp='1342809553' post='2457310'] How about this? (Just throwing it out) What if God loves everybody exactly the same? Certainly possible. We know that God's love is infinite as is his mercy. So the idea that God loves everybody the same is feasible. But what if the perception of God's love being different stems from our recognition of God's love? Or what if the perception changes based on the barriers we unintentionally throw up between ourselves and God?[/QUOTE] This is a thoughtful response to the OP. [QUOTE] And what if Hasan is not a deity but merely immortal? What if he's just been around for so long that he's bored and comes here to stir the pot just to entertain himself? [/quote] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRLSMZ8ijYs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRLSMZ8ijYs[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1342777741' post='2457248'] I'm glad to see that my soul-searching, honest appeal for knowledge and wisdom, has turned into another thread where Hassan is deified. Thanks a lot bastiges [/quote] Oh don't be a grumpy poo. It's the second law of thermodynamics at work. Everything degenerates into disorder! Besides you didn't give me props for my answer, so for your penance I'm trolling yur thread. Have you eva been on a forum where you have to stay exactly on topic? I have and it's boring and frustrating and you soon get sick of it and leave! Besides I almost had Stevil convinced until you almost scared him off. (Trollface) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1342740825' post='2457158'] Hmm, OK, lets play the word game. But first some facts about me. 1. I don't know how our universe began. I understand the big bang theory seems quite plausible but it only explains what happened after the big bang, not why the big bang occurred. 2. I don't make an assumption that our universe is the only one in existence, a one off event seems absurd to me. 3. I don't assume that there is any intelligence or design required to explain the universe as we observe it today. 4. It seems absurd to assume there is a god entity made of "nonexistence" prior to existence 5. It seems absurd to assume a god entity has knowledge of how to make existence prior to existence 6. It seems absurd to assume a god entity can make decisions prior to the existence of time or existence of matter/energy (hence data) 7. It seems a non sequester to go from assuming a creator god to assuming that god to be the Christian god as described in the new and old testaments. Anyway, back to the word game [/quote] But I'm not playing word games, I'm playing logical progression based on observable scientific rules. And that is complex things don't just occur by themselves there is a progression. As a basic look at life in the universe we firstly have physics followed by Chemistry then biology All these have to have certain critical rules or it falls over. Second law of thermodynamics is that things left to their own degenerate to disorder but some things don't. They mysteriously go the other way and progress to complexity. You have to ask yourself what drive this. Probability? I think not. Imagine an alien comes to earth and finds a computer and asks himself how did this happen to be? 1/An infinite number of universes brought about the possibility that it happened somewhere somewhen. 2/ Volcanoes kept throwing up lumps of material for an infinite amount of time until a lump happened to form a PC or maybe it was a Mac! dunno which is more probable! 3/ It has to have a preceding intelligence because non of the above really does it. There is a flow chart where we need a point to the apex. Now as an atheist faced with the universe a billion times more complex than a PC or a Mac, you are faced with the question what is in the position of the apex? You don't accept a powerful intellect then what do you propose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1342817219' post='2457353'] In that sense, Faith is a willfull disregard of intellect. For example, I'm sure you are familar with the prayer: "God, I believe in You. Please help me with my disbelief." Quite circular logic, donchano. [/quote] Bringing foolish quotes into it doesn't really do it for a sound discussion. Sound faith is based on intellect. Foolish faith ie faith without reason obviously is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1342777741' post='2457248'] I'm glad to see that my soul-searching, honest appeal for knowledge and wisdom, has turned into another thread where Hassan is deified. Thanks a lot bastiges [/quote] I...I think I love you. [size=1] [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1342817219' post='2457353'] In that sense, Faith is a willfull disregard of intellect. For example, I'm sure you are familar with the prayer: "God, I believe in You. Please help me with my disbelief." Quite circular logic, donchano. [/quote] No circular logic, you just failed to comprehend what was stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1342835651' post='2457414'] Oh don't be a grumpy poo. It's the second law of thermodynamics at work. Everything degenerates into disorder! Besides you didn't give me props for my answer, so for your penance I'm trolling yur thread. Have you eva been on a forum where you have to stay exactly on topic? I have and it's boring and frustrating and you soon get sick of it and leave! Besides I almost had Stevil convinced until you almost scared him off. (Trollface) [/quote]That's why there are different boards. It's obnoxiously disrespectful and demeaning when people are trying to engage in an intellectual conversation and theyre interrupted with childishly immature inanity. Nobody is saying a thread has to stay exactly on topic, but there are some expectations of politeness and respect for others which is why dust set up different phoroms and boards. You've got open mic and the lame board to be goofy and random and childishly silly. Why does IceNine have to put up with frustrating disrespectful immaturity when she started the topic? She didn't start this thread on Immature Fan Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1342838053' post='2457425'] No circular logic, you just failed to comprehend what was stated. [/quote]I comprehended the statement quite clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 To unlame my previous response, I am incredibly interested in this topic (thanks Ice!) and haven't really thought out a response. Mainly observing, and appreciating the thread. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1342818329' post='2457356'] I don't think a person can choose to love. i fell in love with my wife, I didn't make a conscious choice. [/quote] Then saying "I do" to one's bride looses all meaning and importance, but "Being forced by some biological function I am compelled to answer yes..." doesn't sound as nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1342838405' post='2457427'] I comprehended the statement quite clearly. [/quote] Then you're reply makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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