Children Of God

[dairygirl4u2c]

Many here (presumably all if it's the offical stance of the Catholic Church) believe that only those who accept God is God's child. I believe we are all children of God regardless of what we think individually.

I know you have biblical evidence for your beleif. I would appreciate if you could locate that for me. Also since I believe we are all children of God, no matter how you distort the bible (in my opinion) (or even take the bible too literally if the case may be), I am just curious to see how you respond.

I want someone to say officially. "We are not all children of God."

Edited May 17, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c

[dairygirl4u2c]

John
[quote]
11 He came to what was his own, and his own people did not accept him.

12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God,

13 who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God. [/quote]

I'll do the work for you. Now say your peace.

[mulls]

Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

John 8:42-47


a little harsh? no.....very harsh. but Jesus said it, case closed, in my book at least.


p.s. God still loves all of us, or else Jesus wouldn't have been down here saying these things.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire..... If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." [/quote]

You interpret this to mean that in God's perspective they are not his children.

But I say. When he says "you belong to your father, the devil" he means "you have given yourself to the devil". When he says "you do not belong to God" he means "you have not given yourself to God". That doesn't mean they are not children of God.

You have to read the verses and the bible spiritually. I still argue that if God loves us and created us, we are ALL his children.

Edited May 17, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote][b]1 John 3:9-10[/b]

No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God. 

[b]In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.[/b][/quote]

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote][b]1 John 3:11-24[/b]

For this is the message you have heard from the beginning: we should love one another,

[b]unlike Cain who belonged to the evil one and slaughtered his brother. Why did he slaughter him? Because his own works were evil, and those of his brother righteous.[/b]

Do not be amazed, (then,) brothers, if the world hates you.

We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. Whoever does not love remains in death.

[b]Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.[/b]

[b]The way we came to know love was that he laid down his life for us; so we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.[/b]

If someone who has worldly means sees a brother in need and refuses him compassion, how can the love of God remain in him?

Children, let us love not in word or speech but in deed and truth.

(Now) this is how we shall know that we belong to the truth and reassure our hearts before him

in whatever our hearts condemn, for God is greater than our hearts and knows everything.

Beloved, if (our) hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence in God

and receive from him whatever we ask, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

And his commandment is this: we should believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another just as he commanded us.

[b]Those who keep his commandments remain in him, and he in them, and the way we know that he remains in us is from the Spirit that he gave us.[/b][/quote]

[dairygirl4u2c]

I'm not really sure what your point is in the second quotation. I do know your premise are: if you do not keep God's commandments, you are not children of God. Therefore you must be establishing that as an example? I dunno.

But the only reason that is your premise is because you interpret that first quotation of yours the same way mulls did his. And my interpretation for his verse works for yours too.

You all probably think those verses are pretty dang clear. But again [i]you have to read spiritually[/i]. Not in human terms. I still argue that if God loves us and created us, we are ALL his children.

I've established that the Catholic Church does not teach that we are all children of God (and have helped create a nice western culture on it), there's no more reason to bicker, I've established this much.

Now I urge you all who have not hardened your heart to this fact and realize it's pretty $%^ to go to the "Non-catholic arguments" post and take it on. Please, re-examine your beliefs based on facts with more than just the Catholic Church to interpret them for you. Also do it in a prayerful light so that you can discover the true love of God.

Edited May 17, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c

[Livin_the_MASS]

I agree,

God Loves all of us we are made in His Image!

I'll give you a question, If you know the Truth, Love God, and reject Him and His Truth than what?

I agree He does love us, look at the parable with the One lost sheep. God wants the salvation of souls!

But there is a line is there not? His judgement is just! He loves us so much He gave us a free will to use, even if that is to reject Him, He loves us so much He doesn't force Himself on us, we lovingly go to Him. He never gives up on us, but He lets us choose.

Explain please and Thank You
God Bless
Jason

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]But there is a line is there not? His judgement is just! He loves us so much He gave us a free will to use, even if that is to reject Him, He loves us so much He doesn't force Himself on us, we lovingly go to Him. He never gives up on us, but He lets us choose.
[/quote]

I agree completely with your words depending on your context. But since I know your context has been established as we are not all children of God and that your rhetorical question leans toward there being a line regarding the possibility of us not being children of God, I do not agree.

I believe we inherently suffer for not following God's message. Not like the Catholic Church that teaches that God's justice somehow requires that we must suffer extra in hell or are not His children when we sin.

To all you liberal Catholics that follows what I just said... or actually to all Catholics... why can't we just be children who are defiant? God's justice is still there and all other requirements have been met. It seems to me a more perfect form of fatherly love. So now you can answer me this.

[Aloysius]

because Christians don't just make up doctrines to suit what makes them feel good about the world. We are schooled by Our Divine Lord and instructed by the Infinite Wisdom of the Holy Spirit.

Now, we are all 'children of God' IN THE SENSE that A> God created us all and B> God loves us all.

but in the true spiritual sense of our souls, not all are children of God. above is just the apparent sense, in that He fufills Father-like attributes to us. This was the Jewish thought even before Jesus. What Jesus taught us, one thing that got Him killed, is that we could know God as our personal Father, and not just a father in the sense that He is our creator. Christians can call Him DAD, ABBA, FATHER. They have been given this power to be such personal children of God, where everyone else is a child of God because He is their creator, thus as a creation of God the language "child of God" can be used. But some have as their personal father, the one they obey and follow, and thus the one whom their soul has recourse to, the devil. these are not of God. They are creations of God and God loves them, but they do not have the power to truly become His children.

Pax Amorque Christi

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote]Not like the Catholic Church that teaches that God's justice somehow requires that we must suffer extra in hell or are not His children when we sin.[/quote]

Who told you that? In Hell, those who go there, will be tormented with the sin that got them there plus being with Satan all kinds of stuff,(most of all the seperation from God) [b]that is not Our Heavenly Father[/b], [u]that was our OWN CHOICE! [/u]

Did you not read the Scripture I gave does it not tell you those who are from God and those who are not.

Are you telling me Sacred Scripture contradicts itself, or can this be your personal understanding of the passages? Just curious?

Don't get me wrong, God wants souls, He thirsts for the salvation of souls, but souls like I said before have a free will!

Scott Hahn put it good once he said that a father expects more from his children, than a coach and the team or a boss and an employee

In the love of Christ
Jason

Edited May 17, 2004 by Jason