If You Had To Choose

[cmotherofpirl]

I would go to the vigil exclusively. Mass is the meeting of heaven and earth: The Last Supper, Jesus Christ on the Cross, the Wedding Feast of the Lamb, a host of heavenly angels, a crowd of witnesses from Revelations. We are to lose [b]ourselves[/b] in this mystery.

C.S. Lewis hits it exactly right: [i]Letters to Malcolm, Chiefly on Prayer[/i]


[indent=1]
[size=4][i]It looks as if they believed people can be lured to go to church by incessant brightenings, lightenings, lengthenings, abridgements, simplifications, and complications of the service. And it is probably true that a new, keen vicar will usually be able to form within his parish a minority who are in favour of his innovations. The majority, I believe, never are. Those who remain -- many give up churchgoing altogether -- merely endure.[/i]
[i]Novelty, simply as such, can have only an entertainment value. And they don't go to church to be entertained. They go to [i]use[/i] the service, or, if you prefer, to [i]enact[/i]it. Every service is a structure of acts and words through which we receive a sacrament, or repent, or supplicate, or adore. [b]And it enables us to do these things best -- if you like, it "works" best -- when, through long familiarity, we don't have to think about it. As long as you notice, and have to count, the steps, you are not yet dancing but only learning to dance. A good shoe is a shoe you don't notice. Good reading becomes possible when you need not consciously think about eyes, or light, or print, or spelling. The perfect church service would be one we were almost unaware of; our attention would have been on God.[/b][/i]
[i][b]But every novelty prevents this. It fixes our attention on the service itself; and thinking about the worship is a different thing from worshipping.[/b] The important question about the Grail was "for what does it serve?" "'Tis mad idolatry that makes the service greater than the god."[/i]
[i]A still worse thing may happen. Novelty may fix our attention not even on the service but on the celebrant. You know what I mean. Try as one may to exclude it, the questions "What on earth is he up to now?" will intrude. It lays one's devotion waste. There is really some excuse for the man who said, "I wish they'd remember that the charge to Peter was Feed my sheep; not Try expirements on my rats, or even, Teach my performing dogs new tricks."[/i][/size][/indent]

[havok579257]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1342418154' post='2455995']
I don't like that argument. It's like saying, man, that sure is a fleabag hotel, but since my mother is staying there, I can't say anything bad about it. If I said that it was a nasty dump, it would be like saying my mom is a nasty dump.
[/quote]

the sacrifice of the mass can not be compared to a bad hotel. cause Jesus is so important, so much more importan than your mother or my mother, that as long as he is present, it is incredible. the analogy does not work because of how magnifigant Jesus is in the most blesssed sacrement.

also i never said we can not have legit critisism of the mass if it is not following the guidelines of the church. although legit critisism is not the same as trashing the mass which is what some people seem to do when talking about a certain mass they don't like.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1342449013' post='2456057']
the sacrifice of the mass can not be compared to a bad hotel. cause Jesus is so important, so much more importan than your mother or my mother, that as long as he is present, it is incredible. the analogy does not work because of how magnifigant Jesus is in the most blesssed sacrement.[/quote]

So Jesus is so important, we shouldn't care how we worship Him? You are arguing that it does matter how we worship God so long as He is present.

Either it matters in how we worship Him, or it does not.

The Church says it matters. Unless if your prepared to argue why we should discount Church teachings with clear logic, reason, and wisdom with special revelation, then this debate is over.

It is time to back up your charges with Church Teaching. Back in this thread, I cited some stuff to emphasize that the Church does in fact have regulations on the music as it does not leave it to "Open Season" despite what some parishes do.

[quote]also i never said we can not have legit critisism of the mass if it is not following the guidelines of the church. although legit critisism is not the same as trashing the mass which is what some people seem to do when talking about a certain mass they don't like.
[/quote]

Unveil your charges and clarify with specific examples from this thread. I am not here to feel good.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' timestamp='1342458148' post='2456088']
So Jesus is so important, we shouldn't care how we worship Him? You are arguing that it does matter how we worship God so long as He is present.

Either it matters in how we worship Him, or it does not.

The Church says it matters. Unless if your prepared to argue why we should discount Church teachings with clear logic, reason, and wisdom with special revelation, then this debate is over.

It is time to back up your charges with Church Teaching. Back in this thread, I cited some stuff to emphasize that the Church does in fact have regulations on the music as it does not leave it to "Open Season" despite what some parishes do.



Unveil your charges and clarify with specific examples from this thread. I am not here to feel good.
[/quote] take it to debate dearie

[Cherie]

Sorry, I didn't intend to start a debate! I just wanted to know what y'all thought was more important

[PaulBD]

I would go to the vigil no doubt. If it were not available, I would drive as far as needed to find one like it.

[Norseman82]

It would depend on my schedule for the weekend.

[Jaime]

[quote name='elizabeth09' timestamp='1342306621' post='2455690']
The Vigil. I can`t stand drums, [color=#282828][font=Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]guitars strumming, and clapping[/font][/color]
[/quote]
[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1342308530' post='2455695']
If I knew there would be drums, guitars and clapping, I would not go, unless it was the only possible option within driving distance.
[/quote]

If played well by a trained musician, the guitar can add reverence to the mass

[dUSt]

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1342496473' post='2456277']



If played well by a trained musician, the guitar can add reverence to the mass
[/quote]
I've heard a guitar played in a way that made me feel reverent, but it was on iTunes. I've never heard a guitar played reverently in any mass I've attended in my lifetime. Your statement is good in theory, but not in practice.

[BG45]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1342480412' post='2456199']
Sorry, I didn't intend to start a debate! I just wanted to know what y'all thought was more important
[/quote]

It's PM...you probably could have posted that puppies are cute and a debate would erupt.

That is a bad situation to be in though. Our rather...happy clappy...Mass is on Sunday evenings. I've only gone once because I absolutely had to; but then again I didn't have little ones to worry about properly instructing in the faith either. I thought of your question though yesterday during the prison Mass I was attending. We sang "We Are Called" as the last hymn and one of the volunteers tried to get people clapping like they do at my parish during that song. The inmates in attendance gave the woman a look of "why would you do that in Mass?!"

[Jaime]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1342500862' post='2456303']
I've heard a guitar played in a way that made me feel reverent, but it was on iTunes. I've never heard a guitar played reverently in any mass I've attended in my lifetime. Your statement is good in theory, but not in practice.
[/quote]

Based on your experience but I wouldn't make it an absolute. And i would suggest that the difference between the music you've heard on iTunes and the music you've heard at mass is based on the liturgist more than the guitarist. I get that a lot of untrained guitarists come and play mass. But it doesn't have to be that way

[BarbTherese]

I prefer a quiet dignified sort of Mass. This probably reflects my age (66yrs) and upbringing (prior V2) - i.e. my personal taste more than anything. Our parish has many migrants and our Sunday morning Mass probably reflects their cultures and more expressive than my own. I dont have any real choice, since I do get a lift to Mass and this is most convenient for me. It is the Saturday Vigil Mass. It is more quiet and (to me) dignified than perhaps our Sunday morning celebration and at the other Church in our parish.
The Church I attend on Saturday evening is a very old Church and rapidly becoming quite run down and I did find this difficult initially and sometimes still do (roof leaks in places if it rains, very cold and draughty just now in winter here in Australia). The lighting on Saturday evening in the Church is not good, lots of dark spots and shadows - and at times our speaker system can fail - but I am starting to reflect on what the Church itself is saying to me rather than what I would like it to say - and am reflecting on the birth, life and death of Jesus which was a very poor life and this will change how I experience the Church itself I am sure. It does have a magnificent and very large and old crucifix behind the altar that can hold me. Also last night I saw a documentary on the opium farmers in Afghanistan and was truly shocked at their poverty and their status as victims of drug traders, including the abduction of their children as payment of debts. The terrible grief of families and the dreadful fate of their abducted children. As I watched this program and glued to it, I was reflecting that these are human beings with feelings just like mine - these too are beloved children of The Father and it set me to really considering what I have and my way of life compared to theirs. There is no real comparison! I think such things just might be changing me and in hope anyway, I hope so, and for the better. A reminder that though 66yrs of age I still have an awful long way to go spiritually. I guess I rather thought that if I ever reached 66yrs I might have reached some sort of a milestone - some sort of an important place spiritually in my journey. I haven't.

[OnlySunshine]

I would prefer the quieter Vigil Mass. I don't like loud music and clapping in Church. It doesn't really belong, IMHO. I've been to several "folk" Masses due to work scheduling, but I always felt out of place -- like I was in a Baptist service or something.

At the Mass I normally attend on Sunday mornings, the choir sings some traditional and some newer songs. Our pastor doesn't like a lot of noise at the Mass, which is nice. He loves reverence.

Don't get me wrong -- there is nothing wrong with guitars, drums and clapping -- but they do not belong as a form of entertainment in the Holy Mass. We have a guitar player in the choir, but the main instrument is the organ. The guitarist plays modestly and to augment the organ, not overpower the Mass. It's VERY reverently done.

Edited July 17, 2012 by MaterMisericordiae

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1342500862' post='2456303']
I've heard a guitar played in a way that made me feel reverent, but it was on iTunes. I've never heard a guitar played reverently in any mass I've attended in my lifetime. Your statement is good in theory, but not in practice.
[/quote]

I agree completely!

[Adrestia]

There is something good about being able to feel the presence of Jesus equally during a mass even when you don't like the music or when the homily is bad or when the folks nearby are chatting or when the EMHC blesses folks whose arms are crossed.

If it were up to me, I'd select based on the presiding priest. I'll take a great homily and average music over a so-so homily and super reverent chanting in Latin any day.