Mental Illness & Stigma

[BarbTherese]

I had a volunteer job one day weekly in our parish office and then after about two months our parish priest vanished from the parish and we have not been told why nor where he may actually be. Two weeks after that I loose my voluntary job in the parish office, and now I have indirect indications I was put off because I suffer Bipolar Disorder (and I suspected this initially but it was not the reason I was given for being put off, which was stated there was not sufficient work). Our parish priest (now vanished) was quite happy to give me a try in the parish office and knowing my Bipolar condition and I had first met him in another parish and when I was still quite unwell. It all worked out exceptionally well in the parish office and Father was very happy. During my working career (pre Bipolar onset) I was more of a personal assistant at executive level than just a shorthand typist/receptionist type of secretary (altho my shorthand and certainly typing skills are still quite fast, accurate). When I first began in the parish office we had no parish secretary, then we acquired one for two days and employed by Father (my volunteer day was saving the parish a day's wage each week). After I was put off, the parish secretary's working days (with pay) immediately increased from two days to three days. And logic tells one that that extra day was to cover my absence in the office.

I am now working two days weekly voluntarily in the head offices of an organization within Catholicism also willing to give me a try and right at the start I told them I suffered Bipolar Disorder (I rarely do not state my illness) - and in the nine months I have been there all has worked out exceptionally well, so much so that I was asked to apply for a full time paid position which I very gratefully turned down as a successful application for the full time paid position would interfere with my way of life under private vows (though I simply gratefully turned down the request without stating my reasons). Since then, I have learnt to do other tasks in the organization and to help out other full time staff. In my well over 25 years of suffering this illness, this is the very first organization in The Church to accept me and give me an opportunity and knowing my Bipolar condition. That is, other than our parish priest, now vanished.

Some who might know some of my journey might wonder why I am not mentioning my short journey in monastic life in my forties (at which time I suffered Bipolar and leadership knew this) as being a form of acceptance by an 'organization' within The Church. I have reasons I prefer not to state.

At first, I thought I would keep this all to myself and I dont plan, at this point anyway, to say anything but decided I would speak up on Catholic discussion sites. The reason I have decided to speak up on our discussion sites is because I now have over 20 years experience of the problems of those who do suffer a mental illness experiencing rejection within The Church - and not only my own personal experience but that of other sufferers who are Catholic. Very often sufferers of mental illness who have had negative experiences in The Church are afraid to speak up fearing victimization and further rejection and thus a deeper sense of alientation. I have this niggling fear too and why (at this point) I am choosing the anonymity (more or less) of a Catholic Discussion Site. I feel I have now proven that I am a normally capable person, as much as the (generally speaking) "next person" anyway, and that my Bipolar condition is no drawback in any way whatsoever under (office) working conditions and close working relationships i.e. fellow staff members (probably around 15 people, both genders)

What are the thoughts of other members, especially those who may suffer a mental illness of some kind, and their experiences within The Church. My exerience has been that if you suffer a mental illness and belong to a family contributing on parish level in some way, you are probably more likely be accepted. But if you do not have such 'qualifications' you may well experience rejection. Certainly, if one makes enquiries of religious orders and such like, including Lay Third Orders and even 'ministries' at parish level, my experience states (both personal experience and what I know of others) that there is a form of rejection conveyed and the reasons given are anything but related to the facts that may actually apply. Rather, it is lame excuses that apply. Rejection is due to an existing mindset (based probably on stereotyping more than anything) - and often prevailing in the general community as well. Therapy (also available successful medication) has now progressed a long way including understanding of mental illness itself. The mindsets and stereotyping has not adjusted itself to facts, and this stereotyping reinforces the stigma of suffering a mental illness accompanied by rejection and loss of self esteem and confidence and even a sense of personal value. This is bad enough in the general community but where membership of Catholicism is concerned it becomes confusing and can even undermine Faith itself and in something as important as one's baptismal call and vocation.

I read something very interesting out of our parish tonight : "The twelve apostles called by Jesus were an unlikely group, with backgrounds as varied as fishing, tax collecting and terrorism"

Huh haaa, you see, Jesus never chose a person who suffered a mental illness.

Rather, you see............He did!

Edited July 12, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[AccountDeleted]

Barb
This is a topic well worth pursuing but I would just like to add that the termination of your services at this particular time may not have anything to do with your BiPolar at all. It is possible, isn't it, that the secretary who was given an extra day asked for more hours and since you are a volunteer, they may have decided that the work was not essential to you but she may need to support herself this way. Have you thought of actually speaking with someone in charge about his? Sometimes when we have been hurt in the past, we carry that hurt with us and look for others to do it to us again. I could be very wrong and you could be right, as there definitely is injustice in the world, even the Catholic world, but it might be less painful to you to look for another explanation if possible.

I was let go from a Catholic organisation once because (their reason), I was pursuing religious life and therefore not committed to the organisation. Looking back, I think it is possible that they just wanted to give the job to someone they knew. I will never know for sure. It is easy to get focused on hurt, so try not to let this experience upset your interior balance. It was only a job (volunteer or paid) and as St Bernadette said, 'If God permits it, who am I to complain?'

As for the stigma attached to mental illness, yes, it does exist because most people don't understand it and it frightens them. If a person has not had personal experience themself or with close relationships who have suffered, then they can feel intimidated by what they don't understand and can't control.

Prayers for you.

Edited July 12, 2012 by nunsense

[BarbTherese]

Hi nunsense and thank you for the personal perspective and prayer!

And yes, God has indeed permitted it and good will come out of the whole situation (not only my situation) and I am entirely confident of it, and always have been. I dont think that The Permissive Will of God is a call to any kind of passivity whatsoever - and certainly "complain" and any other perspective is a potential perspective amongst many potential perspectives. I am not complaining one bit about God's Permissive Will, not at all and please God and with His Grace never will.

If persons have indeed had negative experiences connected to mental illness, then any fear is certainly understandable and a reason, but not a valid excuse therefore to reject all who may suffer a mental illness.

To my perspective, it is a situation that needs to be aired.

Edited July 12, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1342084728' post='2454902']
Hi nunsense and thank you for the personal perspective and prayer!

And yes, God has indeed permitted it and good will come out of the whole situation (not only my situation) and I am entirely confident of it, and always have been. I dont think that The Permissive Will of God is a call to any kind of passivity whatsoever - and certainly "complain" and any other perspective is a potential perspective amongst many potential perspectives. I am not complaining one bit about God's Permissive Will, not at all and please God and with His Grace never will.
If persons have indeed had negative experiences connected to mental illness, then any fear is certainly understandable and a reason, but not a valid excuse therefore to reject all who may suffer a mental illness.
To my perspective, it is a situation that needs to be aired.
[/quote]

Barb

Perhaps I shouldn't have put two thoughts in the one post as I think I confused the issue. I was not implying that any injustice should be accepted passively but just trying to ensure that this isn't a case of injustice (that you weren't reading into this situation motivations that might not have been present in others because you feel defensive from past experiences). Perhaps you would be able to speak with someone in authority about your concerns to reassure yourself that their reasons for the decision were not (hopefully) based on prejudice because, as I said before, they may have another reason for their actions, and that is why I made the Bernadette quote. If this truly is God's hand at work (perhaps to lead you to another work for Him) and not human weakness, then it is much easier to accept and you can be assured that He has something even better in store for you. If it is an injustice (and I admit that it could be) then God will be able to use it for good. But it seems as if right now you can't really be sure. It is good to try to give others the benefit of the doubt because if we attribute good will to others in their acts it is easier to find a way to communicate with them. Even if it is a prejudice, then this may be an opportunity to educate others. Just an idea.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1342085478' post='2454903']
Barb

Perhaps I shouldn't have put two thoughts in the one post as I think I confused the issue. I was not implying that any injustice should be accepted passively but just trying to ensure that this isn't a case of injustice (that you weren't reading into this situation motivations that might not have been present in others because you feel defensive from past experiences). Perhaps you would be able to speak with someone in authority about your concerns to reassure yourself that their reasons for the decision were not (hopefully) based on prejudice because, as I said before, they may have another reason for their actions, and that is why I made the Bernadette quote. If this truly is God's hand at work (perhaps to lead you to another work for Him) and not human weakness, then it is much easier to accept and you can be assured that He has something even better in store for you. If it is an injustice (and I admit that it could be) then God will be able to use it for good. But it seems as if right now you can't really be sure. It is good to try to give others the benefit of the doubt because if we attribute good will to others in their acts it is easier to find a way to communicate with them. Even if it is a prejudice, then this may be an opportunity to educate others. Just an idea.
[/quote]

And thank you again for sharing your thoughts
Its not me I am concerned about
It is not my situation in the parish per se (and now over a year in the past) that is the issue, although used as an example of one experience in the not so distant past. I will be speaking with the parish about my personal experience, but not at this point - we have a new appointed this week(announced tonight via email) pastoral associate. I think I mentioned in my original post I would not be speaking up [u][i]at this point[/i][/u]. We haven't had a parish priest now for a year and the parish has been struggling.

Rather it is my experience of the stigma of mental illness that exists in The Church - and also the experiences of same by other sufferers. In my previous parish, I had quite a lot of contact with many sufferers of mental illness and for around 30 years or so. In fact, I was then connected to Public Mental Health. But it is not so much my experiences I am seeking to highlight - only to give an example of stigma in the not too distant past - and to give 'creditentials' as a person who has experienced stigma in The Church and as not "coming from a book:" as it were. It is the whole issue of sufferers of mental illness and their problems related to their Catholic Faith and their experiences of stigma within The Church.

We (sufferers of MI) keep getting swept under carpets of this or that rationalization and all sorts of efforts to cover the stigma that does exist and to keep us quiet, as it were. I can't call a "spade" a "whistle". One can only approach a problem step by step and each step may dictate the 'details' of the next step - an unfolding issue.

Edited July 12, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

A more general example of stigma that can exist, is that quite some years ago, I was reading a magazine put out by a missionary order of priests. In an article, it was stated that sufferers of mental illness had insight into demonic possession. I was shocked and thinking that I was possibly misreading, showed the article to a senior mental health worker. She was taken aback also. I suffer the second most serious mental illness - Bipolar Disorder. I have no insight whatsoever into demonic possession - oppression perhaps.

I wrote to the magazine and the author of the article and asked if the statement could please be amended so as not to connect sufferers of mental illness generally in any way with the subject of demonic possession. I received a letter back stating that the priest in question was absent in Fiji and on his return my letter would be passed on to him. In due course, the author wrote back to me that I had misunderstood what he was saying. I did write back to him stating that perhaps if I had misunderstood as well as senior mental health workers, then perhaps his statement was open generally to be misunderstood by his readers and should be amended in some way - and that his article had made a link between sufferers of mental illness and demonic possession when they were two totally different subjects, two totally different human experiences and in no way at all related, but I received no answer.

Certainly the behaviour at times of those who do suffer mental illness can be extreme and in the minority of cases, it can be dangerous behaviour either to self and/or the community. These people are very ill indeed. There is absolutely no connection to actual demonic possession nor should any sort of connection be made in a Catholic magazine for sure - and any claim by a mentally ill person that they are possessed by a demonic presence (as can happen) is the statement of a person who has a quite serious mental illness and their statements are in no way factual nor related to reality.

Certainly exterior behaviour may present some similarities to demonic possession perhaps - I wouldn't know. This does not mean that the person with a mental illness involved in such extreme behaviour has any insight whatsoever into actual demonic possession. Two people can behave in the same or similar manner, but the motivation/cause for such behaviour is not of necessity the same, not at all. Nor does the one have any insight whatsoever into the disposition of the other.

Father's statement was too brief, general and sweeping, all embracing, and conveying a completely false impression of mental illness generally and across the board.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1342085478' post='2454903']
Barb

Perhaps I shouldn't have put two thoughts in the one post as I think I confused the issue. I was not implying that any injustice should be accepted passively but just trying to ensure that this isn't a case of injustice (that you weren't reading into this situation motivations that might not have been present in others because you feel defensive from past experiences). Perhaps you would be able to speak with someone in authority about your concerns to reassure yourself that their reasons for the decision were not (hopefully) based on prejudice because, as I said before, they may have another reason for their actions, and that is why I made the Bernadette quote. If this truly is God's hand at work (perhaps to lead you to another work for Him) and not human weakness, then it is much easier to accept and you can be assured that He has something even better in store for you. If it is an injustice (and I admit that it could be) then God will be able to use it for good. But it seems as if right now you can't really be sure. It is good to try to give others the benefit of the doubt because if we attribute good will to others in their acts it is easier to find a way to communicate with them. Even if it is a prejudice, then this may be an opportunity to educate others. Just an idea.
[/quote]

Just to pick up on your comments above, nunsense. - and to explain a little further myself - and not the subject really of this thread (rather a side issue) although understandable that it could be concluded that it is.

If I have made incorrect conclusions about the reason I was dismised from the parish office and it is a potential at least, then [u]for one only[/u] I was not told the truth in the first place as to the reason I was let go and so abruptly and without any sort of warning.

Motivation and reasons can most always be multiple. One can only work with the facts one has to hand until and if further light informs further these facts. To follow up on what happened and available facts will be the next step once our pastoral associate settles into the position and this week's (via email) newsletter has shed more light. I don't have to do this and am free to let the whole matter pass, it is a decision or choice to do so and with a bigger issue in mind and if necessary further steps. After all, the parish is always entitled to make decisions in its own best interests.

My dismissal did cause quite considerable problems to me financially at the time (to fill you in a [i]little [/i]further) since the government pays me a mobility allowance of $80.00 fortnight (I am on an aged pension, no longer on the disability pension) to complete 32 hrs of voluntary work monthly (I was working far more hrs than this in the parish office up until Father suddenly disappeared somewhere and on the Archishops instructions according to our parish newsletter) - and the parish office knew about the mobility allowance being dependant on 32hrs voluntary monthly. Had I been given some sort of warning, I would have been able to get voluntary work elsewhere (or advertise for more ironing which costs $40 but my income had dropped by $80 fortnight) and as things very happily unfolded eventually (after a couple of months) I was able to obtain voluntary work and in an office and within The Church general community, and now work voluntary 8 days monthly and more than the 32hrs asked by the government. In the interim between the parish office and my voluntary work now, I was at a distinct financial disadvantage with my pension down by $80 fortnight. Certainly, if I took in ironing on the days that I do voluntary work, I would get far more than $80 - in fact I could earn $360 my calculator tells me. My voluntary work is not about money although every dollar does help.

Our parish office is now open 5 days week.

God's Will always unfolds happily, if humanly uncomfortable at times, and for the best - and has done so as always - and I am in regular contact of some kind with my spiritual director including personal visits

[CatherineM]

My husband deals with these issues everyday. During our last labor crunch when restaurants were closing due to lack of workers and McDonald's was paying $15/hour to start, he applied for a part time job at Catholic Social Services. They were desperate to fill it according to everyone we talked to, and it was the same type of job that he had done at Canadian Mental Health for five years so he was qualified. They wouldn't even give him an interview and the position remained vacant for six months. They did ask him to join their Board if Directors. He declined.

That was a stima issue. Sometimes though it is just about money or playing favorites. Ask yourself if you think you would have been fired if you hadn't had a mental illness. Sometimes it is just easiest to fire the disabled person when a job cuts back personnel. That happened to a friend of my husband. Sometimes it isn't institutional stigma but just the person doing the firing. I lost a volunteer slot once because the secretary I was helping out was afraid I wanted her job.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1342108269' post='2454968']
My husband deals with these issues everyday. During our last labor crunch when restaurants were closing due to lack of workers and McDonald's was paying $15/hour to start, he applied for a part time job at Catholic Social Services. They were desperate to fill it according to everyone we talked to, and it was the same type of job that he had done at Canadian Mental Health for five years so he was qualified. They wouldn't even give him an interview and the position remained vacant for six months. They did ask him to join their Board if Directors. He declined.

That was a stima issue. Sometimes though it is just about money or playing favorites. Ask yourself if you think you would have been fired if you hadn't had a mental illness. Sometimes it is just easiest to fire the disabled person when a job cuts back personnel. That happened to a friend of my husband. Sometimes it isn't institutional stigma but just the person doing the firing. I lost a volunteer slot once because the secretary I was helping out was afraid I wanted her job.
[/quote]

Good point Catherine, sometimes it is about the stigma and sometimes it is just personalities. I have been laid off just because someone didn't like me - they don't tell you that to your face, but you know it. It can be jealousy, fear, all manner of things - all hidden behind some kind of plausible excuse. I have even been disliked by people just because I have an American accent (that's why it can be a relief sometimes to live back in the States - I sound like everyone else there ). Prejudice comes in all shapes and sizes.

Edited July 12, 2012 by nunsense

[cmotherofpirl]

If any illness is under medical supervision and one's life is functioning normally enough to get by, I don't think its ANYONE"S business what problem you have. Its private and doesn't have to be up for discussion.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1342115592' post='2455007']
If any illness is under medical supervision and one's life is functioning normally enough to get by, I don't think its ANYONE"S business what problem you have. Its private and doesn't have to be up for discussion.
[/quote]

Once again, an excellent point. I don't share my private life with anyone unless it is relevant to the position or the organisation has a 'need to know' because it would affect my performance in some way or have a bearing on others.

[cmotherofpirl]

I would also define "need to know" on a very narrow basis.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1342115592' post='2455007']
If any illness is under medical supervision and one's life is functioning normally enough to get by, I don't think its ANYONE"S business what problem you have. Its private and doesn't have to be up for discussion.
[/quote]

This is very true. One's medical condition does not of necessity need to be disclosed and especially if it will have no affect on one's performance. It might be best not to disclose a medical condition or personal circumstance. In my instance, Father knew of my illness from another parish. I obtained a letter from my psychiatrist as a re-assurance to for him of my mental health and over a ten year period and it was a glowing type of letter that even surprised me. This letter was in my parish file. My police clearance was submitted to diocesan offices as well as approval for me to work in the parish office from diocesan offices was also obtained.
But reflection last night and this morning does give cause to give further reflect whether it was not the best of moves to raise the issue on this forum. However, it is now a fait accompli and "all things work together for those that love God" even in instances where one has or may have made not the best of decisions at all. The Lord's Permissive Will.

Edited July 13, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1342135839' post='2455149']
But reflection last night and this morning does give cause to give further reflect whether it was not the best of moves to raise the issue on this forum. However, it is now a fait accompli and "all things work together for those that love God" even in instances where one has or may have made not the best of decisions at all. The Lord's Permissive Will.
[/quote]

Why? It doesn't make a difference here. Everybody has a cross to bear in his oe her own way. Some are public some are private, all can be heavy at times.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1342149711' post='2455216']
Why? It doesn't make a difference here. Everybody has a cross to bear in his oe her own way. Some are public some are private, all can be heavy at times.
[/quote]



I did reflect last night and this morning that I had probably sidetracked the issue I really wanted to raise - by mentioning details of my own recent past experience (and not my first) and that my experience(s) could become the primary focus.

My actual issue was mental illness and stigma and especially stigma that may have been experienced or known about and as a Catholic in Catholic organizations of any kind.

Edited July 13, 2012 by BarbaraTherese