Friends Suicide

[Annie12]

Fr. Mitch Pacwa wrote a book and in the book he describes how his best friend was gunned down by drug dealers. I'm not sure if I can say much to help you because You are facing a much bigger trial than I have ever had to deal with. But, Fr. Mitch was saying how he was trying to find out why his friend died but he lived. He came to the conclusion after a few years of trying to figure it out, that it is a mystery that he will only find out when he dies. It must be so hard for you to go through something like this and my condolences go out to you and your friend's family. I'll pray for you and your friend's soul. Trust that God is in charge and that he knows what he is doing. We as humans are to small and weak to know what God is up to. If you get really sad, reach out to God. Don't worry; God is with you! God bless!

[BG45]

Prayers...I can't imagine what it's like, but you have them for what they're worth.

[AnneLine]

Fire*Starter, I've not been on Phatmass too much last week or two because my MIL is ill and I have been away from a computer much of the time. I do try to read the posts as often as I can, and I saw this and I have been praying for you and for your friend.

You've probably seen that I've done a lot of grief counseling, and I will agree with what has been said to you. One of the hardest kinds of death to deal with is a suicide, because it's normal to think wow, I could have done something... I wish I could have helped.... Why? But those thoughts aren't really helpful. I like what someone said that Fr. Mitch noted--it's a mystery we won't understand. It sounds like you tried to be there for her to the extent she let you a few years back.... and you don't have enough pieces to know why not this time. She knew you loved her.... and you still love her or you wouldn't be hurting so much now. That love is powerful before the throne of God.

As the others have noted, I doubt she was totally responsible for her actions, and I know your prayers for her will be valuable. If it hurts too much for you to pray for her right now, ask others to pray for her .... I certainly will keep praying for all of you.

It's really common for people who are grieving to hurt MORE a few months after somoene has died... and while it will get better, it will take some time. It's ok to be angry and sad, and frustrated and confused and all the other emotions you discussed. But being normal doesn't make it hurt less.... it just means that feeling those feelings is the common lot of survivors, and it truly is nasty to have to do through it. But if you work through it, it does get better. You'll always miss her and wish it hadn't happened, but the acute burning will lessen in time.... but it will take a while.

You might want to see if there is any sort of a support group for people who have experienced a sudden death or a suicide near you. If you don't want a 'talk' group, sometimes there are art groups, or other kinds of workshops that can help you work through your pain.

Holding you & your friend in my heart....

[Mark of the Cross]

[i]And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain, and when he was set down, his disciples came unto him. [url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=5&l=2#x"][2][/url] And opening his mouth, he taught them, saying: [url="http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=5&l=3#x"][3][/url] Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.[/i]

May your friend find the Kingdom of heaven.

Your desire to be anonymous is your free choice, but your love and compassion for your friend is a credit to you and what marks who you are..

[Archaeology cat]

Wll the raw feeling pass? Eventually. Will the sadness pass? I don't know that it ever completely passes. My dad's cousin, whom I loved dearly, committed suicide when I was young, and it still hurts at times. A childhood friend died unexpectedly a couple of years ago, and I am sad whenever I think of her. I am sure that would be amplified had she committed suicide, as a suicide just leaves a rawer wound, I think. You are normal in how you feel. May God be with you, and I pray for the repose of her soul.

[Papist]

This is very good.

[url="http://www.kofc.org/un/en/resources/cis/cis325.pdf"]http://www.kofc.org/un/en/resources/cis/cis325.pdf[/url]

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

also as far as i'm aware the holy catholic church refrains from speaking as to what 100% causes suicide and as to what are the consequences of suicide for the victim, because she(the holy catholic church) does not know. Take heart and pray for you friends soul when you can,if you pray.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1342007106' post='2454622']
Grave fear of hardship is one reason only mentioned by the CCC as a potential reason for suicide and one of the reasons only for potential diminished responsibility. There is no mortal sin possible if responsibility is diminished.
[b]2282 [/b]......................."................Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide."
[/quote]

Thanks B. I see this is the holy catholic churches answer and is good. Suicide i believe so often is such a terrible accident of misfortune as are major car accidents incuring death.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Fire*Starter]

Tab. Quite frankly I find your attitude annoying.

I know the teaching of the cc. My friend wasnt Catholic. She lived deep in momon territory and was scared off god and religion because of militant Catholics who meddled mocked good people. She believed the catholics but hated them for their destroying of others faith.

Sometimes we just have to learn that the church DOSNT have all the answers. Thats why we still get new revelations....around the reception of communion frequently (citra 1600) or limbo (recently).

The church dosnt have the answer.

I dont find the idea of mercy comforting at all. Only dissapointing. Because my friend gave up. We BOTH shared these feelings years ago. We both survived bad things.
And I have known others who faught suicidal thoughts for 5, 10 or in the case of one friend daily delt with wanting to kill himself for 20 years. Not a single day of reprieve....even with medical help.

So then what good does it do? If god would of been merciful then why should they....anyone...try?

Again, im not suicidal. Just feeling rather angry on the behalf of other friends.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Fire*Starter

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Fire*Starter' timestamp='1342142688' post='2455176']
Tab. Quite frankly I find your attitude annoying.

I know the teaching of the cc. My friend wasnt Catholic. She lived deep in momon territory and was scared off god and religion because of militant Catholics who meddled mocked good people. She believed the catholics but hated them for their destroying of others faith.

Sometimes we just have to learn that the church DOSNT have all the answers. Thats why we still get new revelations....around the reception of communion frequently (citra 1600) or limbo (recently).

The church dosnt have the answer.

I dont find the idea of mercy comforting at all. Only dissapointing. Because my friend gave up. We BOTH shared these feelings years ago. We both survived bad things.
And I have known others who faught suicidal thoughts for 5, 10 or in the case of one friend daily delt with wanting to kill himself for 20 years. Not a single day of reprieve....even with medical help.

So then what good does it do? If god would of been merciful then why should they....anyone...try?

Again, im not suicidal. Just feeling rather angry on the behalf of other friends.
[/quote]

Actually revelations closed at the death of the St John the Apostle around the year AD110, so we don't get new ones, dogma doesn't change. Changes seen in the Church results from looking at the dogmas in different ways and implementing them the disciplines to suit the needs of the Church.
I am glad you are a survivor of your past, and I wish your friend would have been as well.
We never know the whys of many things in our life. Pray for your friend if you can, and we will pray for you.

[emmaberry]

Praying for you FS, and your dear friend. I know you said the idea of mercy is not comforting to you...but I am not sure if your are properly understanding the mercy posters are speaking of.

The mercy of God is unfathomable, deeper than the ocean and reaching beyond the heavens (Ps 36:5). Even if it is of no comfort to you, pray for your friend. If you are Catholic, offer mass for her soul. You and your friend are already receiving prayers from PMers, hopefully that is somewhat of a comfort for you.

God bless you.

[Admin]

I echo Emmaberry

God's mercy is infinite. I'm very sorry for your loss! I've had family make the same mistake and have felt the repercussions firsthand. I pray that Jesus holds your friend and my family member and that he holds you as you try to heal.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1342075161' post='2454882']
Thanks B. I see this is the holy catholic churches answer and is good. Suicide i believe so often is such a terrible accident of misfortune as are major car accidents incuring death.
[/quote]


Lost my brother when he was 29yrs to sudden and unexpected, violent death and know the shock and long grieving period it took to fully resolve grief. And we all grieve differently and different aspects of life and death Faith and/or religion, can become a focus in the grieving process. We need that gift of interior freedom, which permits and values others to grieve and to focus in their own unique way and as entirely valid and appropriate in the grieving process, which can be lengthy. I learnt this with myself and my family (his friends too) when Bob died so suddenly and so terribly.

I know the anger that can rise up - the resentment and questioning. In themselves, these things are not wrongful andpossibly quite normal under certain cirumstances. Acknowledging their presence is important (to do else is a denial and even repression of a process taking place in the self) including talking about them if necessary. Its how these issues are resolved that matter and resolution wont happen overnight (short of a miracle). And how these issues are resolved may be contributed to by those around the grieving person and rightly or wrongly, not only the grieving person's own free will, choice and decision in the resolution process. Truly are we not islands.

Keeping our opening poster, FS, in prayer.

Edited July 14, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

The death and resurrection of Jesus has not changed totally (to our day anyway) the human condition in one aspect, and that is on the strictly human level. There is still hatred and violence, wars and death, injustice and suffering on all levels. What the death and resurrection has changed is that belief that has existed certainly since human history anyway began. Life after death. And it has changed how we can experience and/or view hatred and violence, wars and death along with injustices and suffering on all levels because Jesus did not despise the human condition, rather He embraced it fully in His own life and death and was subject to cause and effect every little bit as we are. He asks us to take up our own cross in life and follow Him. Our human condition and all it means now has a positive spiritual aspect and this is holy because of the life and death, resurrection, of Jesus.
Jesus rose from death and this is our belief and Hope also. We believe and Hope not only in our own resurrection from death (of any kind) but that of the whole of creation. We believe that Jesus will return.

I have experienced - and very much aware that I am not for a second, alone - that it is not so difficult to embrace and share our Faith, until possibly suddenly one is immersed in suffering oneself, then totally different aspects of our human existence become our own and intrinsic to one's selfhood - and we experience our Faith and beliefs very differently than before - and not at all unusual questioningly. Sometimes, Faith reaches maturity in suffering and it just might be through a process of questioning and even intense negative emotions. Emotions have no morality at all, they simply are. Anger, for example, is recognized as a potential psychological process in grieving.

And as I write I am very much aware that it could be experienced as condescending and patronizing in potential - and not intended. But then I cannot dictate how another must receive what I write or say and only on my terms. I can only hope to be able to speak to another in some way and without leaning on my own writing and/or speaking skills - if any- and to hope to have that gift of interior freedom that freely acknowledges and permits another to experience exactly how they experience and to share this, if they choose.

Edited July 14, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1342054251' post='2454783']
This is very good.



[url="http://www.kofc.org/un/en/resources/cis/cis325.pdf"]http://www.kofc.org/.../cis/cis325.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

Excellent article and resource. Thank you for sharing.