thessalonian Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I am sure the title I chose will be controversial. Oh well. I didn't know she was Catholic until a couple weeks ago. [url="http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/09/opinion/gates-contraception-families/index.html?hpt=hp_c1&is_LR=1"]http://www.cnn.com/2...t=hp_c1&is_LR=1[/url] Man I don't know. People are so ignorant and their views so twisted. Children are a blessing. Those who criticize the CC for publically expressing it's opinion about ABC do the very same thing they decry when trying to pass it out to everyone. They make judgements on what size people's families should be. If the issue is well some people can't really afford 5 kids then why the h-e-double toothpicks did Melinda Gates limit the size of her family? THis stuff going on is demonic. It separates women from their role as givers of life, the greatest gift and makes the working world the superior play for a woman. Sad. Truly sad. Edited July 9, 2012 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Don't really think it's our call. Maybe we should pray instead? The world isn't gunna get better if we gnash our teeth at every person that seems to fight against the Lord's Will. And it does little for our cause if we get mad and get bent outta shape. We have to practicing what we are preaching and reading, which is Love. Otherwise, I'm surprised that anyone is still surprised when these things come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The world has become the [i]Culture of Death[/i]. To be honest, I am still disgusted but no longer surprised when I hear of people talking about birth control as if it's some kind of blessing. They are misguided about proper alternatives. I still don't understand why people see abstinence as a huge thorn in their paw. Why take something that could cause infertility (even when you stop taking it) when there is something free and much safer? Our Lady of Guadalupe, protector of the unborn, pray for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Can she? Guess that's up to her Bishop. Should she? Guess that's up to her Bishop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 1) I am not gnashing my teath. Not sure where you got that from my post. I am direct. 2) I am not surprized 3) I know it is up to her bishop 4) I am all for prayer and certainly undedrstand these things need prayer. 5) I am not mad and outta shape. Not sure where you got that from my post. I am direct. Just seems to me that sooner or later for the Church to let Catholics know it means business and that we need to pick the Church or the world, something drastic needs to happen to wake people up. For the good of these people and the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savvy Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Melinda's views are completely one-sided. She does not even understand the church's teachings on this issue. Excuse me if I am wrong, but a person cannot be excommunicated for just disagreeing in this case, but for insisting that their views be made official right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tifoso Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='savvy' timestamp='1341870307' post='2454089'] Melinda's views are completely one-sided. She does not even understand the church's teachings on this issue. Excuse me if I am wrong, but a person cannot be excommunicated for just disagreeing in this case, but for insisting that their views be made official right? [/quote] Actually she has excommuniated herself ("put herself out of the community") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='savvy' timestamp='1341870307' post='2454089'] Melinda's views are completely one-sided. She does not even understand the church's teachings on this issue. Excuse me if I am wrong, but a person cannot be excommunicated for just disagreeing in this case, but for insisting that their views be made official right? [/quote] [quote name='Tifoso' timestamp='1341872347' post='2454096'] Actually she has excommuniated herself ("put herself out of the community") [/quote] Excommunication can be either [i]latae sententiae[/i] (automatic, incurred at the moment of committing the offense for which canon law imposes that penalty) or [i]ferendae sententiae[/i] (incurred only when imposed by a legitimate superior or declared as the sentence of an ecclesiastical court). Of course, every element must be met for it to be a mortal sin -- full knowledge, grave matter, and deliberate consent. We don't know if all of these have been met. Only God knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='savvy' timestamp='1341870307' post='2454089'] Melinda's views are completely one-sided. She does not even understand the church's teachings on this issue. Excuse me if I am wrong, but a person cannot be excommunicated for just disagreeing in this case, but for insisting that their views be made official right? [/quote] I don't know whether she understands the Churches teachings and rejects them culpably or not. That is certainly why bishops are left with the decision. I would hope that he will have her in to explain the Churches teaching as bishops have done with the likes of pelosi and sebellus. She most certainly, from her interviews knows what the Churches teaching is. Further if she is "ignorant" of them it seems to be a chosen ignorance on some level if she does not understand them because she does not to my knowledge articulate the reasons behind them and then say I disagree. She is an adult and it seems to me that a responsible thing for a Catholic to do is to at least do some research and see why the Church teaches what it does. There seems to be some culpability if one does not. An arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1341872871' post='2454099'] Excommunication can be either [i]latae sententiae[/i] (automatic, incurred at the moment of committing the offense for which canon law imposes that penalty) or [i]ferendae sententiae[/i] (incurred only when imposed by a legitimate superior or declared as the sentence of an ecclesiastical court). Of course, every element must be met for it to be a mortal sin -- full knowledge, grave matter, and deliberate consent. We don't know if all of these have been met. Only God knows. [/quote] Understood. Though at times it is the Bishops job to make judgements on such matters. I do like the new translation of the mass (I think it is called the confetor or something like that) where it says "through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievious fault" however. I think we have been too lax on the three conditions for mortal sin. On a side note seems to me that there might be something lacking with regard to the "full knowledge" part of this. Seems like as I implied above there would be some culpability if one has access to the knowledge but has not taken the time or is too arogant to look in to it? We have some responsibility to educate ourselves it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1341874428' post='2454102'] Seems like as I implied above there would be some culpability if one has access to the knowledge but has not taken the time or is too arogant to look in to it? We have some responsibility to educate ourselves it seems. [/quote] you are correct. Invincible ignorance cannot be claimed in the case of a Catholic who has by his or her own fault failed to educate himself on the matter. If a Catholic has taken due effort according to his state in life to inform his conscience andmake himself knowledgeable about Church teachings and [b]through no fault of his own [/b]is ignorant of something, then invincible ignorance can be claimed. In other words it would be super duper hard for a Catholic to claim invincibile ignorance on "big ticket" things like contraception and abortion which are well advertised. Ignorance alone [b]may [/b]lessen culpability ("wow didn't realize it was THAT serious!" type thing) but does not remove culpability. Invincible ignorance removes culpability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1341869123' post='2454087'] 1) I am not gnashing my teath. Not sure where you got that from my post. I am direct. 2) I am not surprized 3) I know it is up to her bishop 4) I am all for prayer and certainly undedrstand these things need prayer. 5) I am not mad and outta shape. Not sure where you got that from my post. I am direct. Just seems to me that sooner or later for the Church to let Catholics know it means business and that we need to pick the Church or the world, something drastic needs to happen to wake people up. For the good of these people and the Church. [/quote] Well, directness or not you kinda went off every which way demanding repercussions etc. so yeah....anyways... The Church has been the Church for a lot longer than any of us and more than likely I think the Holy Spirit knows where to channel His Grace. So, I mean I think it the long run it doesn't matter and in the mean time we should be persevering through prayer and listening to what the Lord's Will is directing ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 She, and thousands of liberal Catholics who give pretense to be in good standing, whilst openly supporting the Abortion Holocaust, must learn to be obedient to Mother Church. Your concerns are valid, thessalonian. Because she and the many others like her cause public and serious scandal when they advocate such demonic things as murdering babies for whatever reason. Pray with me she learns obedience and that Catholics who support the Abortion Holocaust will be strictly disciplined for their very public disobedience and scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 burn her at the stake then force the remains to sit in the comfy chair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 [quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1341888617' post='2454235'] burn her at the stake then force the remains to sit in the comfy chair! [/quote] No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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