Things You Should Know As A Catholic

[Papist]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1341859743' post='2454004']
This is my opinion as well. I went through CCD from 1996-2003, and [b]every single person in my class tuned out and eventually fell away[/b], myself included. It was structured with memorization, recitation by rote, tests, homework and grading. What we walked out with after 8 years was a bunch of prayers we could parrot at will without any understanding of what it meant or why we should care.

I didn't know what transubstantiation was until I was 18, and attended Adoration for the first time as a sophomore in college. I never knew about either of those things until that point.

It took a Protestant ministry to actually teach me about living a relationship with God. So yes, my catechesis did fail me, and that was with knowing much of the list in the OP.
[/quote]

You can say that for English, History, Geography, and every other subject....at least I can say that for me. I always blamed my knowledge/understanding(or lack there of) of the teachings of the faith of the watered down versions of the late 60s and 70s. It only took a few years of doing youth ministry to conclude that I was not a good student and probably things wouldn't have been that different if I had received solid catechesis. I also believe my parents were a factor too. If my parents were active in my Catholic learning and they were active in their Catholic faith between Sundays, I am confident things would have turned out different. The teacher can teach you 2+2=4, but if you learn 2+2=5 at home, then chances are high that 2+2=5 is want you believe.

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1341859743' post='2454004']
Teaching them the Faith is critical, but if it's not built on getting to know and love Christ and building zeal for His Church, then it's all pointless.
[/quote]

Yes. It is very important to help youth to have a relationship with Christ. However, it is vital they know WHY they should have a relationship with Christ AND His Church.

[Groo the Wanderer]

so...anyone have any lesson plans geared toward teens for each of these lists they could share?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1341893772' post='2454257']
Sure you can.
[/quote]

Not unless there is something seriously wrong you can't...

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1341927563' post='2454316']
Not unless there is something seriously wrong you can't...
[/quote]

So...then by that logic, there's no way St. Joseph Cupertino could have become canonized?

Edited July 10, 2012 by Basilisa Marie

[brianthephysicist]

[quote name='curiousing' timestamp='1341888818' post='2454238']
Ohhh... I just have to say this: Emerson ripped it off from the Talmud. The Talmud was written way before Emerson was ever born. Just FYI.
[/quote]
Did not know this, I've been quoting that from Emerson for the past few years, I will remedy that in the future, thanks!

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1341927204' post='2454315']
Not unless there is something seriously wrong you can't...
[/quote]
Seriously wrong with what or whom?

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1341928846' post='2454319']
So...then by that logic, there's no way St. Joseph Cupertino could have become canonized?
[/quote]
Right?

[missionseeker]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1341867957' post='2454079']


I won't blame poor catechesis on the past 40 years. I'll blame poor catechesis for part of the major problem in the world today. I don't know when it started, but VII [i]did[/i] certainly seem to be the hinging point at which problems (perhaps existing) suddenly became immediately visible to anyone who cared enough to watch or listen.

But, really? Do I need to draw attention to your ad hominem attacks here? Just because Pelosi and Biden went through catechesis during a time which you seem to imply also had poor catechesis (or are you saying that catechetical instruction is as good now as it has ever been?), doesn't mean that they didn't live through the period immediately following VII when even people with solid theological training were turned completely around (by instructors of the faith), and taught heresy.

But again, I agree. It is the "why" that is relevant, much more than the "what". Uninstructed people can still get to heaven if they understand the "why".

Okay - backing off again...
[/quote]Well obviously there were problems BEFORE Vatican II- enough problems in catechesis that Vatican II was held. The problem after Vatican II was the sheer and outright disobedience of pastors and other "minister" type people who passed it off as what the church wanted/taught/decided to the laity- who were starving for understanding.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1341928846' post='2454319']
So...then by that logic, there's no way St. Joseph Cupertino could have become canonized?
[/quote]Wrong, reading is not a requirement to learn things by heart " [color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]According to contemporaries, Joseph could barely read or write, but continued to grow in holiness and wisdom, leading a life of poverty and prayer. He was unsuited for scholarship, but could answer intricate questions regarding the faith." [/size][/font][/color]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1341937415' post='2454341']
Well obviously there were problems BEFORE Vatican II- enough problems in catechesis that Vatican II was held. The problem after Vatican II was the sheer and outright disobedience of pastors and other "minister" type people who passed it off as what the church wanted/taught/decided to the laity- who were starving for understanding.
[/quote] The pastors had quite a bit of help from the Sisters in this, they were the ones in charge of the schools.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1341884501' post='2454205']
One of my former spiritual directors made this hyperbole (and I am paraphrasing, my memory isn't perfect): Vatican II revealed that the pretty wrapping covered an empty box.

By empty, he did not mean completely void of substance or meaning, just that the church was not where we thought it was. Another analogy would be a young adult who moves away from home for the first time and realizes that he is not as prepared for the real world as he thought he was.

It's possible that Vatican II exposed some underlying problems. (I'm not old enough to remember before Vat II.)
[/quote]

This is very possible. I have the bad habit of thinking of my upbringing as being the same as everywhere pre-VII, simply because the liturgy was traditional. Obviously just because my own catechesis was (I believe) outstanding, doesn't mean that it was that way in the 50's and 60's.

Still, a lot has happened in the Church and in society since then, and a lot of bad society has crept into the Church. If catechesis was poor then, it only became worse later. People before VII didn't have a hard time believing that the Eucharist is truly God, where some 60% of Catholics had that problem 10 years ago.

[missionseeker]

Indeed they did. I meant to mention them. [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1341939855' post='2454349']
The pastors had quite a bit of help from the Sisters in this, they were the ones in charge of the schools.
[/quote]

[BG45]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1341894971' post='2454259']

Pre cana is almsot a joke, I took it with my wife 26 years ago and the young couple, not a priest or a deacon, that "taught" the class knew less about the faith than I did. They actually said it would be better for us to live together for a few months to see if we were compatible both in mindset and sexually than to enter into marriage and risk being later divorced. I am irish and so is my wife, we had to have chaperones until we were engaged, with a ring on her finger, then we had a curfew that she had to be home by. My father in law would have killed me if I suggested living with his daughter, my dad would have killed me if he thought I was even considering it. I told the priest, a young guy, and he said its better to be certain than to break a sacrament, I asked him if he knew he was as much as telling me and my future wife to become adulterers. The rest of the class was inane tripe such as , make a financial pie, should your wife hyphenate her name, who will pick the childs name, who will be the boss, who will make the financial decisions, what type of sex did we expect, and write your wedding vows.
[/quote]

Meanwhile, in the vein of what you said about sometimes being different parish to parish or diocese to diocese, I asked a friend about her Pre-Cana class since she just got married last year and is expecting her first. It was:
*Under the direction of a priest
*Stressed how wrong contraceptives are
*Went over basic morality
*Dealt with the economic issues of marriage
*Encouraged the couples to get to know each other better by asking questions that might seem silly at first, but linked back to the teachings of the Church
*Included the option to go on a weekend long Retreat filled with prayer, Adoration, and counseling.
*Pointing out that the priest is not the one conferring the Sacrament of Marriage, because he can't. ("Will you marry us Father" is apparently met with a lengthy theological discourse on why that's not a correct question before saying yes.)

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1341888560' post='2454234']
the problems were there before Vat II. I still run into people that prayed the rosary during Mass. They were supposed to be praying the Mass along WITH the priest - the missals had the translations. Even then, not everyone 'got it'.
[/quote]

I still see people do this...

[sixpence]

I do have to say that 15 years of Catholic school did give me a very good background on the NT and a decent chunk of the OT. Did it convince me to be a good Catholic? Meh... not so much. But it was rather beneficial later on when I actually decide to try to be a practicing Catholic. I was also not really catechized by my parents that much other than going to mass all the time, but being a stubborn and contrary child, this might have actually been beneficial

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1341888560' post='2454234']
the problems were there before Vat II. I still run into people that prayed the rosary during Mass. They were supposed to be praying the Mass along WITH the priest - the missals had the translations. Even then, not everyone 'got it'.
[/quote]

I might take issue with this statement, if you mean that the people are supposed to be saying (even inaudibly) the priest parts of the Mass with the priest - which, just like in the Ordinary Form, is not correct.

If by "praying the Mass" you mean that they should be paying attention to what's going on, then that's good.

Edit: in the EF, there are a lot more priest parts, and quite a bit of downtime for the parishioners, during which, in my opinion, it's possible to pray the rosary and pay attention to what's happening on the altar at the same time.

Edited July 11, 2012 by fides' Jack