Anomaly Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Intended to be more sarcastic then jerky, but fair enough. We can use anything to justify jerkiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1341772132' post='2453535'] I'm sorry, but I cannot in conscience do anything that may be perceived as giving legitimacy to such an "arrangement". [/quote] What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin??? Jesus Christ NEVER shunned another human being because they were sinners. Are you not supposed to be following Him? What a great example of charity. "Dearly beloved, let us love one another, for charity is of God. And every one that loveth, is born of God, and knoweth God." - 1 John 4,7 "He that loveth not, knoweth not God: for God is charity." - 1 John 4,8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1341668469' post='2453104'] Thanks so much for your responses!! What should I say, then, to my father-in-law? Almost every time we talk to them on the phone (which is almost every day!) he says something like, "Shouldn't you be keeping your distance from them...?" He feels like he has the Church's backing on that and quotes Scripture. I'd like to give him an example from the Church (St. Monica, maybe?) that would make him think twice about shunning. [/quote] After biting a hole in my lip, I would simply respond to him saying, "She's my mother. I can not, I will not abandon her.". I wonder what he would have his son do in this situation. It is very easy for him to tell you what to do being far removed from the situation. I'd just let FIL words go in one ear and out the other. I would not try to justify my actions to him. As far your mother, I think you did great. You let her know how you understand and think of the situation. I don't think you need to keep hammering into her what she needs/should to do. She knows how much you are a faithful Catholic and probably knows full well your thoughts on this. I believe the best thing you can do now is love your mother and be there whenever she needs you. If this was me and my parent, I make it clear that as long as he/she was living with someone outside of marriage, their grandchildren will not visit, which basically means me too. And that if he/she comes to visit, his/her housemate cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1341772132' post='2453535'] I'm sorry, but I cannot in conscience do anything that may be perceived as giving legitimacy to such an "arrangement". [/quote] If everyone shunned, cut off sinners, everyone would be friendless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1341787513' post='2453634'] What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin??? Jesus Christ NEVER shunned another human being because they were sinners. Are you not supposed to be following Him? What a great example of charity. "Dearly beloved, let us love one another, for charity is of God. And every one that loveth, is born of God, and knoweth God." - 1 John 4,7 "He that loveth not, knoweth not God: for God is charity." - 1 John 4,8 [/quote] Also, how can you say you love God who you cannot see, yet hate your neighbor whom you can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1341792061' post='2453656'] After biting a hole in my lip, I would simply respond to him saying, "She's my mother. I can not, I will not abandon her.". I wonder what he would have his son do in this situation. It is very easy for him to tell you what to do being far removed from the situation. I'd just let FIL words go in one ear and out the other. I would not try to justify my actions to him. As far your mother, I think you did great. You let her know how you understand and think of the situation. I don't think you need to keep hammering into her what she needs/should to do. She knows how much you are a faithful Catholic and probably knows full well your thoughts on this. I believe the best thing you can do now is love your mother and be there whenever she needs you. If this was me and my parent, I make it clear that as long as he/she was living with someone outside of marriage, their grandchildren will not visit, which basically means me too. And that if he/she comes to visit, his/her housemate cannot. [/quote]But on the other hand, you could meet in neutral territory for lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1341787513' post='2453634'] What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin??? Jesus Christ NEVER shunned another human being because they were sinners. Are you not supposed to be following Him? What a great example of charity. "Dearly beloved, let us love one another, for charity is of God. And every one that loveth, is born of God, and knoweth God." - 1 John 4,7 "He that loveth not, knoweth not God: for God is charity." - 1 John 4,8 [/quote] I think the fact that I'm not sprinkling holy water on them, not telling them at every turn to repent or they will burn in hell (save the time I told them to not go through with their "conmmitment" ceremony because they wee placing their souls in danger, unless you think that was wrong, too), and not nagging them that their "arrangement" means that somewhere there are two men that cannot find wives is charity enough for me. There is also a saying that it is not charity to confirm another in their sin. You're not the only one that can pull Bible verses and pious sentiments out of thin air. Do you also believe it was wrong for me to not attend their "committment" ceremony? Edited July 9, 2012 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1341792480' post='2453659'] If everyone shunned, cut off sinners, everyone would be friendless. [/quote] Oh come on now, as a Catholic you should know that certain sins are more serious than others. That is a very CatholicinSD type of emotional argument. Maybe the reason that we are in the mess we are in today with "Catholics" accepting same-sex marriage is that we're NOT taking a hard enough stand on such behavior, but instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1341792757' post='2453660'] Also, how can you say you love God who you cannot see, yet hate your neighbor whom you can see. [/quote] Who says that by refusing to giving legitimacy to a wrong arrangement one is being hateful? That type of statement is straight out of the secular playbook. Please don't be duped by the secular anti-Christian phrasebook. Edited July 9, 2012 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1341787513' post='2453634'] What happened to love the sinner, hate the sin??? Jesus Christ NEVER shunned another human being because they were sinners. Are you not supposed to be following Him? What a great example of charity. "Dearly beloved, let us love one another, for charity is of God. And every one that loveth, is born of God, and knoweth God." - 1 John 4,7 "He that loveth not, knoweth not God: for God is charity." - 1 John 4,8 [/quote] Love the sinner, hate the sin is a fairly modern concept which has nurtured sinners in their sin by not being told they are wrong. IMO. I do beleive Jesus loved sinners as he died for them, but he also in his ministry told sinners to " go forth and sin no more " I doubt he would have said I love you and will still love you even if you persist in sin, but hey, I am gonna hate that sin fer sure! I think his message was clear, sin no more. We know as catholics we can receive the sacrament of Absolution and Penance, but we also know we are to detest our sin and firmly resolve with the help of His grace to sin no more. So turning a blind eye too a sinner, or welcoming them in your home with full knowledge of their sin and not admonishing them , well that would just be enabling them in the sin. ed Edited July 9, 2012 by Ed Normile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The hatred displayed in this thread disgusts me. No one, to my knowledge (comprehension) has suggested approving of the situation. In fact, everyone has encouraged the OP in absolutely letting her mother know where she stands on the issue (which is where the Church stands on the issue) and setting reasonable boundaries until the situation is more rooted in holiness and Truth. The one thing almost everyone has said is to not shun her mother because she has sinned; rather, they suggest the OP make known the moral issue, and then love her mother in spite of it. It disgusts me that anyone would suggest that Christ would stop loving someone because they sinned -- even after hearing Truth from the mouth of God Himself. If you have not love for sinners, you have not love for Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1341806038' post='2453794'] The hatred displayed in this thread disgusts me. No one, to my knowledge (comprehension) has suggested approving of the situation. In fact, everyone has encouraged the OP in absolutely letting her mother know where she stands on the issue (which is where the Church stands on the issue) and setting reasonable boundaries until the situation is more rooted in holiness and Truth. The one thing almost everyone has said is to not shun her mother because she has sinned; rather, they suggest the OP make known the moral issue, and then love her mother in spite of it. It disgusts me that anyone would suggest that Christ would stop loving someone because they sinned -- even after hearing Truth from the mouth of God Himself. If you have not love for sinners, you have not love for Christ. [/quote] Someone suggested Christ would stop loving someone because they sinned ? I must have missed that post. I also must have missed teh hatred, I did see people explaining certain truths about sin and giving opinions, but I must have skimmed over the hatred, well except in your post... ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1341806360' post='2453798'] Someone suggested Christ would stop loving someone because they sinned ? I must have missed that post. I also must have missed teh hatred, I did see people explaining certain truths about sin and giving opinions, but I must have skimmed over the hatred, well except in your post... ed [/quote] That's because the youngsters of today have been duped by the bullying tactics of the PC crowd that states that if you dare speak out against the PC orthodoxy, you are a bigoted hatemonger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1341807328' post='2453809'] That's because the youngsters of today have been duped by the bullying tactics of the PC crowd that states that if you dare speak out against the PC orthodoxy, you are a bigoted hatemonger. [/quote] I hardly think that sharing Truth with LOVE is PC. You can be an angry, bitter, hateful person all you want, but it doesn't make you any more holy or orthodox than anyone who chooses to show love to those who go astray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1341807779' post='2453811'] I hardly think that sharing Truth with LOVE is PC. You can be an angry, bitter, hateful person all you want, but it doesn't make you any more holy or orthodox than anyone who chooses to show love to those who go astray. [/quote] The problem today is that ANY sharing of truth, no matter how much love is put into it, is labeled as hate, so I just ignore any time the "hate" word is thrown around. Edited July 9, 2012 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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