Opinions/help For A Family Situation

[Winchester]

[img]http://stickerish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/NowKissBlackSS.png[/img]

[Winchester]

[img]http://www.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/celebrities/23023-katy-perry/1251229293_katy_perry_290x402.jpg[/img]

[Lilllabettt]

Is your goal to change your FIL's mind about the right way to handle this?
Or just stop the uncomfortable interaction? <-----(this one is easier.)


Your MIL is exactly right! Tell her that in private. She will appreciate it!
Your husband should put his foot down with his father - in private. That's his job as your husband.
Mutually respectful, man-to-man, but the point firmly made: "the discussion about how my wife chooses to treat her family is over, please don't offer your thoughts on it anymore."

Edited July 7, 2012 by Lilllabettt

[CatherineM]

My mom lived in sin with my father for 30 years. They finally got married 2 years before he died, mostly for social security reasons. After he died, she proceeded to live with another man for 26 years. She recently went to a nursing home after he had a stoke. My mom's not catholic but took instruction twice and has lived her life as one so to speak.

I never cut her off because of her lifestyle. I did stop talking to her on the phone for a couple of years because of her manner not her living arrangements. I had a brother who did, but that was because he couldn't stand the guy mom was with.

What good would cutting her off do? Would it change her? Who is your FIL going to have you cut out next, your Jewish baker or Muslim hairdresser or how about your atheist neighbor. Christ didn't ignore the woman at the well, he spoke to her compassionately.

As someone very experienced in divorce mediation and family dynamics, this situation has more to do with your FIL than your mom.

[Cherie]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1341678486' post='2453138']
Is your goal to change your FIL's mind about the right way to handle this?
Or just stop the uncomfortable interaction? <-----(this one is easier.)


Your MIL is exactly right! Tell her that in private. She will appreciate it!
Your husband should put his foot down with his father - in private. That's his job as your husband.
Mutually respectful, man-to-man, but the point firmly made: "the discussion about how my wife chooses to treat her family is over, please don't offer your thoughts on it anymore."
[/quote]

Actually I think my goal IS to change FIL's mind about it. He is a good Catholic and, at least on the outside, seems pretty "open-minded" in the sense that he WOULD change his views if he thought that was the Church's view on things. I just want to provide him with reasons to rethink his position on that ... and we haven't really ever provided good examples of that, except by using the word "charity". A concrete example would make him think about it and I think that would be good for him, because he really does intend to do what's [i]right,[/i] and he thinks the [i]right[/i] thing to do, no matter how reluctant we are or how painful it would be, is to cut them off.

And honestly, my husband has tried to tell them to back off. I think it's partly my fault, because I am very close to my in-laws and have probably provided them with too much information, which makes them think they can tell us (and me, particularly) what to do about it. So that part is really my fault; I have a tendency sometimes to tell people too much. Prudence is one of my favorite virtues but I need a heck of a lot more of it.

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1341678558' post='2453139']
As someone very experienced in divorce mediation and family dynamics, this situation has more to do with your FIL than your mom.
[/quote]

Yeah, I think that's true.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1341680915' post='2453144']
, because I am very close to my in-laws
[/quote]

just have to say ---all the other stuff aside -- that in itself is pure amesome.

[Ed Normile]

If you had to choose your mate by the quality of his family and he by the quality of your family then I doubt their would be any marriage at all in this world as family are people and we are not perfect. If you two can bear this cross with love and patience maybe your example can help some of those involved. As you know religion is a very personal matter and its a hard thing to try and change someones mind on issues they are set on, I doubt that scripture would affect your father in-law's mind set as he has already quoted you scripture which backs his ideals. Throwing up references to saints may seem offensive to him too if it seems you are trying to force your views on him, it would probably be more productive to work on him through your mother in-law by showing her these examples and adding that you and your husband would like to shepherd your mother the way these saints have shepherded their stray family. If you and your husband have children the actions of your mother will be more of a problem at that time, it will be tough to explain why grandma is living with a man and not living the example of faith which you are trying to instill in your child. Then again at that time maybe the thought of your mother not having a close relationship to your child may affect her spiritually in a positive way. This is a tough situation which can only be helped through prayer, and you have mine.

ed

[eagle_eye222001]

This post will be a bit long, but I want to be somewhat thorough.

First off, I want to establish the argument

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1341672045' post='2453117']
....I think it's mostly just to give him SOME response. When he quotes Matthew 18 to defend his position, all of us: husband, myself, mother-in-law (all of us well-versed Catholics!!!) stand around like deer in headlights!..........

but what can we say to that?"
[/quote]


The Classic Modern Dilemma of faithful Catholics on how to interact with fallen brethren.


Your question inspired me to write a short tract on the matter. And while this is likely not the final version, I think it will help.


[center][b]Catholic Conduct Among Fallen Catholics[/b][/center]

The question of how one is to interact with (even at all) those who before were followers of Christ, but who presently, distinctly and deliberately choose to not follow the teachings of the Church, is a challenging and complicated one.

The standard rule was/is to disassociate completely from those Catholics who have reengaged on the faith. Below are the passages and citations in support of this.


[quote][i]“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the Church; and if he resues to listen even to the Church, let him be to as a Gentile and a tax collector.”[/i] -Matthew 18:15-17[/quote]



[quote][i]“I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral men; not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters. Since then you would need to go out of the world. But rather I wrote to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber-not even to eat with such a one.”[/i] -1 Corinthians 5:9-11[/quote]



[quote][i]“Elect for yourselves, therefore, bishops and deacons worthy of the Lord, humble men and not lovers of money, truthful and proven; for they also serve you in the ministry of the prophets and teachers. Do not, therefore, despise them; for they are your honorable men, together with the prophets and teachers. Correct one another, not in anger but in peace, as you find it in the gospel; and let no one speak with you who has done a wrong to his neighbor, nor let him hear, until he repents. Your prayers and your alms and all your acts you shall perform as you find in the gospel of the Lord.”[/i] -Didache [15,1][/quote]


Okay. These three quotations seem fairly straightforward on how a faithful Catholic is to interact with a dedicated fallen away Catholic. However, the first point to note, is that this seems to be a disciplinary rule, and therefore may be modified as the Church dully sees fit.

Some other quotations to note.


[quote][i]“My brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sin.”[/i] -James 5:19[/quote]



[quote][i]“Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness.” [/i] -Galatians 6:1[/quote]


I would argue that our continued interaction with those who have fallen away, is an ongoing attempt to bring them back. Therefore, we are not in violation if we do not get to the "never speak again" phase, but rather continue get together with them in hopes that we are availed opportunities to bring them back.

Two clarification points.

1. Be careful never to approve of their sin. Do make sure they understand you do not approve.
2. You don't always have to talk "religion" when you get together with those who have fallen. By talking about secular things, you are still able to present yourself as a faithful Catholic trying to live out your faith in the best way.



So when someone throws Matthew 18 at you, I would counter-point that it is a disciplinary measure to be carried out by the Church as seen fit. Also I would counter that you are carrying out Matthew 18. Your continued [i]qualified [/i]presence is an ongoing attempt to bring them back.

Although there are times when it may be proper to cut off communication, however I would argue this need not always happen necessarily.

This situation is somewhat subjective, and therefore should be treated with caution when criticizing one's approach.

[franciscanheart]

CherieMadame, I think you're right on in thinking that you should keep the lines of communication open and act charitably toward her no matter her decisions in life. We don't convert hearts by ignoring those who suffer.

[PhuturePriest]

I can't say anything others haven't already. Keep in contact with your mother, be a good witness to the Faith, love her with the Faith, and always try to respect her, even when it is difficult. I would also prepare in case she comes to you for comfort if/when she and her friend separate. As you say pathology seek pathology, and there is a good chance this man is also a "marshmallow fluff", as you kindly put it. Pray for her as Saint Monica prayed for Saint Augustine, and hope for the best. This is really all you can do.

You will be in my prayers.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1341674132' post='2453127']
I have a cousin who is in a SS relationship; if she brings her "partner" along to family gatherings, I will talk with my cousin and give her a hug, but I do not acknowledge the "partner".
[/quote]
There is nothing to be gained by ignoring another human being in a family gathering. Catholics do NOT practice shunning , it is not Christ-like in any way. You don't have to agree with someone's behavior to acknowledge their existance and good manners are appropriate no matter what the situation.

[add]

Silence cuts like a knife. Family is a terrible thing to lose. Life is short.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1341767355' post='2453504']
There is nothing to be gained by ignoring another human being in a family gathering. Catholics do NOT practice shunning , it is not Christ-like in any way. You don't have to agree with someone's behavior to acknowledge their existance and good manners are appropriate no matter what the situation.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but I cannot in conscience do anything that may be perceived as giving legitimacy to such an "arrangement".

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1341772132' post='2453535']


I'm sorry, but I cannot in conscience do anything that may be perceived as giving legitimacy to such an "arrangement".
[/quote]Norse, at a certain point it becomes hateful towards the sinner as well as the sin. But that's what religion is for.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1341780580' post='2453603']Norse, at a certain point it becomes hateful towards the sinner as well as the sin. But that's what religion is for.[/quote]

you know, people being jerks isn't just confined to a 'religious" thing.