rkwright Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 My wife's cousin is getting married this weekend. She is pretty close to him and he was in her brother's wedding. Her cousin is Catholic, and the girl he is marrying is Catholic. However they not having a mass or any type of Catholic service. Honestly I'm not sure what type of service it is, it may not be religious at all. Her cousin's mother (wife's Aunt) is a very nice lady and likes us very well. Two of the other aunts in the family have said they're not going. I think I know the answer, but is the wedding valid? I don't think so... Should we attend? We were considering just going for the reception and not the "service" - thoughts on this? The aunt would really like us to attend, shes sad that two of the aunts are not coming and doesn't want to divide the family. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 is a priest officiating the marriage? if not, then it doesn't sound like it would be a "valid" marriage? (i dunno, not sure about this, so i'm open for correction) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 I found out its a methodist minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 [quote name='rkwright' timestamp='1341613359' post='2452941'] I found out its a methodist minister. [/quote] So, it's not valid. I think you should definitely attend the reception though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 nope. don;t even send a gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 [quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1341613804' post='2452946'] So, it's not valid. I think you should definitely attend the reception though. [/quote] agreed.[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1341615042' post='2452947'] nope. don;t even send a gift. [/quote] are you joking or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 A dispensation from his bishop is required. The key here is that he is Catholic. He is Catholic and is bound to marry according to the rite of the Church. Attending the ceremony and reception would be putting yourself in a position of giving witness to this wedding being valid. If not attending would cause great damage to family relationship(s) then the Church understands this and at times would advise to attend to prevent this. I would have your wife talk to her cousin and explain this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I have a related question, hope it isn't too off track. If a Catholic person marries outside of the church (considered invalid), and later divorces, why would the person then need an annulment if they wanted to marry in the church? The fact that annulment is required might suggest to some that the first marriage was or could be recognized by the church. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 If they are both Catholic, why are they being married by a Methodist minister? Were they raised Catholic but are not practicing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1341610067' post='2452930'] is a priest officiating the marriage? if not, then it doesn't sound like it would be a "valid" marriage? (i dunno, not sure about this, so i'm open for correction) [/quote] Don't forget the deacons!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 In these situations I don't go to the service but I go to the reception and give a gift. You want to wish them the best and keep in mind that they may have their marriage blessed later. As to why a catholic not married by a priest still has to get an annulment, because marriages are deemed valid unless shown otherwise even though we know they aren't. The annulment in these cases are just a bit if paperwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappie Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Such a marriage fulfills natural law, but does not fulfill canon law,and unfortunately, it is increasingly common. It's a case (I assume) of two persons who are free to marry (no canonical impediments), one or both having been baptized as Catholic and not having formally defected from the Catholic Church. One or both are “cultural Catholics,†but who likely do not practice the faith for one reason or another. They decide to get married, but not in a Catholic Church, and without the bishop’s dispensation from canonical form. These are the weddings in Protestant churches, or before a justice of the peace, or on a beach, or in the rose garden of the country club, or wherever. Such weddings are potentially valid if both parties are free to marry and intend to marry with the properties of unity and indissolubility. If they were not Catholic, the marriage would be valid, but since they are Catholic, they are subject to Catholic marriage rules — that is, the canonical form. We can ask the question: is it a sin for a Catholic to get married outside the Church without the bishop’s dispensation? Objectively, yes it is. However, the “Catholic†person getting married outside the Church could be such a nominally practicing Catholic, and so poorly instructed, that he/she may well have no clue that it’s a sin. The only element missing for a valid marriage in this case is the canonical form (marriage in the presence of parish priest/deacon and two witnesses). Such a defect of canonical form is easily remedied. If your attendance at this wedding would push the Catholic spouse(s) fluffy air extractionher away from the Catholic Church, you may not attend. But if your presence might help bring them closer to the Catholic Church, I think you could attend, so long as you speak up (privately and at an appropriate time) and say something to the effect: “Remember, ..... that you were born a Catholic and you should get this marriage blessed in the Church and put Christ at the center of your relationship with .... The sacraments of the Church, especially confession and the holy Eucharist, will help you immensely.†I have done this more than once (before the wedding and even with some after the wedding) and in most cases it has helped them to reconcile with the church or choose to have the wedding with a Catholic priest or with the dispensation from canonical form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) I have the same question as Adrestia. My understanding of the rules regarding annulment is that if the wedding was performed by a Christian minister (even a non-Catholic Christian minister), then an annulment would be required if the couple divorced, and and either Catholic party wanted to marry again and have the marriage recognized by the Church (and be able to take Communion, etc.) But, again, as I understand it, an annulment would not be required if the wedding was purely civil, not Christian. I understood that the purpose of an annulment is to declare that the marriage was not valid in the first place. If the marriage has to be declared invalid by an annulment, then doesn't that mean it is valid otherwise? Maybe there are different meanings for the word "valid?" and that is what is confusing me. A related question. So far, the consensus seems to be not to attend the wedding (but possibly the reception). Is there anything in the magisterium that would say that a Catholic would not be allowed to attend such a wedding? Or, would the decision whether or not to attend be based on one's own conscience, or perhaps to make a statement about two Catholics marrying in a non-Catholic, albeit Christian service. Thanks in advance for anyone's help in understanding this issue. (These specific questions don't apply to my circumstances, but I'm interested in the answers.) Note: Cappie posted his excellent response while I was still writing this. (I need to learn to stop editing my posts so they get posted faster!) Edited July 7, 2012 by IgnatiusofLoyola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 This is a great article on deciding whether to attend a wedding or not: [url="http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=137"]Catholics United for the Faith: Should I Attend?[/url] The whole article is definitely worth reading, but here's the conclusion: [quote] Anyone invited to the wedding of a couple whose marriage does not promote the truth should prayerfully consider his actions. Using the teachings explained in the Catechism, he should ask ourselves, "How can I avoid participating in their sin, yet encourage their salvation? How can I avoid scandal, yet encourage the salvation of others?" Anyone in this situation should discuss the matter with a spiritual director or in the confessional before making the decision. Whatever one’s decision may be, a Catholic should strive to give a clear and charitable witness to the faith. The Catholic Church does not teach whether we must or must not attend. Christ does say we must witness to the truth in a charitable manner. If loved ones or friends go through with the wedding, a Catholic should look for opportunities to maintain contact and witness to the truth. Above all, our decisions and actions must promote the salvation of souls. In fostering the salvation of souls, the Two Great Commandments are fulfilled. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Go to the reception only, or go to the wedding but tell them (beforehand) you're there just to witness, not to approve. [size=2]And give them a nice expensive pair of matched rosaries for their wedding gift. [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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