Taxmaggedon: Coming January 2013

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1341136380' post='2451097']
I fixed your state worshiping crap for you. 10-15 years ago, I was less able to provide for my family and I made fewer charitable deductions. Your icon doesn't look enough like the president, or whichever member of Congress you burn incense to on whatever shrine you have to the State.
[/quote]

I know, I know.

If only the American people would listen to the emo hipsters who have never read [i]The Lord of the Flies.[/i]

Clearly it's the fault of the evil fascists that you haven't made personal economic progress in decades, so that when a tax relief program expires AS PLANNED it makes a big dent in your charitable efforts and you can't maintain the same standard of living for your family.

The people who HAVE gotten ahead in the last 10 years? They're surely in bed with the fascist pigs. Hard work and effort have nothing to do with it I'm sure. The head of my household has improved its lot by about 40% in the last 5 years - even with the increase in taxes, we have way more left over than we did back then.

But that's probably due to higher levels of education, which was obtained at an Evil State University and paid in part by Evil State grants and Evil State subsidized loans.

Oink, oink.

It's rough living in a UNFREE society where the state attempts to guarantee access to the basics of human survival, like food and clean water. [url="http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1642"]The free market does it so much better.[/url]

[filius_angelorum]

If you destroy the economy through tax hikes, on what will you be able to collect revenue? I say we need a flat income tax of twenty percent, and outlaw sales and property taxes.

[Annie12]

So Obama doesn't want anyone to be rich...or poor and he charges us just for breathing all the while taking our right to life away. He wants us to live in accordance with his policy's and doing otherwise results in tax????? Sound like a full fledged socialist to me! Oh! And I heard that within obamacare will pay doctors not according to number of patients but "quality of care ". I think this mean if doctors dont do abortions, they cant be doctors!

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1341168170' post='2451205'] And I heard that within obamacare will pay doctors not according to number of patients but "quality of care ". I think this mean if doctors dont do abortions, they cant be doctors!
[/quote]

Why do you think that?

[arfink]

Well, in my case, hard work has paid off a little bit:

-Worked hard at school, studying to be a priest. Plan fell through at the last minute, and I'm stuck with a philosophy degree.
-Worked hard to find a job out of college. Went 6 months with nothing. Finally found a job at a grocery store because of a friend.
-Working hard at minimum wage for 35 hours a week. Just enough to get none of the benefits of being full time while still working almost full time! Joy!
-Working in all my other available "free" time to a) expand my portfolio and resume with unpaid work and b) working for Mom and Dad to help "pay" for:
-Living at home with Mom and Dad because rent around here is $700 a month for a box with a door that locks in a slummy part of town.

Now at least I haven't had to pay any taxes yet, since I make so little money at my little bakery job that I have zero liability. I have lots of room to grow before they can actually tax me, but I can arseure you that a higher tax rate is going to make it harder for me to make the next move once I finally do make enough money to do something like affording monthly payments for rent or a mortgage or something. (along with living expenses)

Edited July 1, 2012 by arfink

[Winchester]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1341166721' post='2451193']
I know, I know.

If only the American people would listen to the emo hipsters who have never read [i]The Lord of the Flies.[/i]

Clearly it's the fault of the evil fascists that you haven't made personal economic progress in decades, so that when a tax relief program expires AS PLANNED it makes a big dent in your charitable efforts and you can't maintain the same standard of living for your family.

The people who HAVE gotten ahead in the last 10 years? They're surely in bed with the fascist pigs. Hard work and effort have nothing to do with it I'm sure. The head of my household has improved its lot by about 40% in the last 5 years - even with the increase in taxes, we have way more left over than we did back then.

But that's probably due to higher levels of education, which was obtained at an Evil State University and paid in part by Evil State grants and Evil State subsidized loans.

Oink, oink.

It's rough living in a UNFREE society where the state attempts to guarantee access to the basics of human survival, like food and clean water. [url="http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1642"]The free market does it so much better.[/url]
[/quote]
Wasn't the Cuyahoga public property?

If you think we had a free market in 1969, you're beyond hope.

The state spends 5 dollars to get 1 dollar of aid, and your fabulous politicians aren't poor. But gee whiz, they're not really in it for the money! Maybe you should look into who actually writes regulations.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Winchester

[Winchester]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Statianity/356040437750697

[Annie12]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1341168779' post='2451209']


Why do you think that?
[/quote]
Because the obama administration want abortion on all levels. Abortion is their agenda (it's under the radar for a reason.)

[Winchester]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1341183105' post='2451279']
Because the obama administration want abortion on all levels. Abortion is their agenda (it's under the radar for a reason.)
[/quote]
Annie, that's dumb. Don't you know they're just trying to provide services? You're lucky the gubbmint taxes us. You would just waste the money on dumb stuff you like. A charity doesn't employ many people, but bureaucracies create thousands of jobs to accomplish very little, thus bringing us closer to total employment!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABB-lScOoSk

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1341180671' post='2451268']
Wasn't the Cuyahoga public property?

If you think we had a free market in 1969, you're beyond hope.

The state spends 5 dollars to get 1 dollar of aid, and your fabulous politicians aren't poor. But gee whiz, they're not really in it for the money! Maybe you should look into who actually writes regulations.
[/quote]

The Cuyahoga was certainly public property. Industry violated no laws in dumping their waste in the river, to the extent that it killed all life in the stretch between Cleveland and Akron. That's because their dumping was UNREGULATED.

You see, a company has one primary objective: make money. So of course they used the easiest, cheapest way to get rid of their waste. Exactly what incentive did they have to dispose of it in a safer, more expensive way way? The goodness of their cherubic little hearts? Their love for their fellow man? Give me a break. Everyone knew what was happening to the river. The people who lived on the river would always make jokes about "wow the river is shiny today." Because the topmost layer of filth was reflecting the sun as it floated along. Still these companies kept it up for decades because NOBODY could make them stop.

Even if the locals had organized a boycott it wouldn't have made a difference - because these were large (inter)national organizations and they had plenty of customers elsewhere who didn't give a carp about northeast Ohio.

But lucky for us the fascists in Washington decided to make them stop. Our saviors in the capital swooped in and regulated the carp out of them (since again they had ZERO incentive to self-regulate in a meaningful way).

It's more expensive, and it eats into profits. It allows the companies to reinvent themselves as community heroes (I'm looking at you Sherwin Williams) but if the regulations were relaxed they'd go right back to polluting the river. Because that's the whole point of their existence. Make more money. For now, the Evil Burdensome Fascist regulations make it more expensive to dump in the river, what with the huge fines. But barring regulation, there will never be a cheaper way for them to get rid of their waste than just throwing it out their back door.

The free market does not have human dignity as its primary object and that's where it breaks down. If given true 100% liberty, it can eat humans alive, for instance in the pornography industry. If men were angels it would work great. Again see the works of William Golding.

Right now it's popular to whine and moan about how the politicians stink, and they do stink at their jobs in many ways, but in other ways they have been extremely effective. In fact most scholars would agree that this is probably the best time in history for a human being to be alive, in terms of affordable access to food and healthcare, declining crime and war, and other measures of quality of life. And that's largely because humans have developed more effective ways of governing themselves and regulating the use of resources, not because of any magic performed by the free market.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1341183105' post='2451279']
Because the obama administration want abortion on all levels. Abortion is their agenda (it's under the radar for a reason.)
[/quote]

Well just so you know, doctors being paid for "quality of care" means they will be paid for performance. In other words, if a surgeon takes care of 1 patient per 30 minutes and they really take their time to make sure the patient gets a good outcome, they will be paid more than if they rush 3 patients through the 30 minutes and 2 of the patients get an infection and die.

I encourage you to google "evidence based medicine" and learn about it.

[arfink]

Well, this will be the last 2 cents I pitch this way for the time being:

The idea that you can justify authoritarianism by arseerting that "men are not angels" is as old as dirt. The idea stinks because it expects men to behave like little devils, and thus encourages men to act in such a way whenever it's expedient or whenever a mistake on the part of the regulators occurs. We also know that regulatory mistakes and loopholes happen very frequently, and that our current system of regulation has only increased business' desire to find loopholes as quickly as possible.

This of course doesn't even consider what happens when you take regulatory power away from the people who should be most equipped to dole it out and centralizes it.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1341195157' post='2451339']
The Cuyahoga was certainly public property. Industry violated no laws in dumping their waste in the river, to the extent that it killed all life in the stretch between Cleveland and Akron. That's because their dumping was UNREGULATED.
[/quote]
So the laws regarding public property permitted harm to come to others. And this is a failure of the free market.


And I've read William Golding. It's fiction. Thanks. Ever read "Paper Men"? Good book.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Winchester

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

It must be hard being a good politician, why not start asking GOD to protect all the good politicians from evil that his will may be done in there lifes more effecitively. And don't even mention a name, just let GOD choose and do his thing.

[Annie12]

Sorry for speaking my mind. I just thought people would see that a president who's in favor of infanticite would use code language to get his agenda pushed onto the people. What I say is NOT "stupid" and should be listened to. I'm all for good care!!! But if obama makes the rules he WILL find a way to include abortion. We need to protect life! ITS NOT DESPOSABLE! Obama doesn't see why life in the womb is sacred so he is going to implament policies that he sees are right. He doesn't see. I feel it is very niave to arseume Obama is innocently trying to help people with their healthcare. Let me remind you that he is a politician. Why else would he be changing the way doctors get paid?? They seem fine righg now! This way is the best way to filter out doctors who don't do abortions. He can define what "quality of care mean"(and stick aborting as a requirement for doctor to practice medicine) and therefore weed out the pro-life doctors.

This is just my speculation based on Obama's past but until you read to 2000 page bill don't say what I say is stupid. When you say that I think of all the unborn babies that get torn limb from limb in the mothers womb ever second in the US.