Adrestia Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1341065560' post='2450831'] Oh. I understand your point now. That survey is bogus. Silly me [/quote] I never said the survey was bogus. Stop putting words in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1341112667' post='2451047'] A-Scuze me if this was already addressed here, but should the Supreme Courtiers have looked at Obamacare through the prism of Freedom of Religion? It seems logical too me as this mandate refuses the right of christian, jewish, muslim, or any other nameable religious institution or for that matter individual, to say no to paying for abortion and abortion related drugs/services. This is in essence telling all who are pro-life that you must pay for the death of the yet born human lives or you face fines or jail time. That seems to be seriously limiting our rights as Americans to practise and live out or religious values in our everyday lives. This is just one small thing this " Tax " arseaults on the practitioners of all religions who believe in teh sanctity of life, but heck patty, was not that way Hitler got rolling, a few small steps at a time? ed [/quote] They don't give a crap about liberty of anything. They are not a check on government power. They are the government. The check on Federal power is non-Federal action. I hope the states begin to nullify. Edited July 1, 2012 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1341114392' post='2451060'] I never said the survey was bogus. Stop putting words in my mouth. [/quote] I am putting words in your mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1341112133' post='2451045'] Yes, they could allow capitalism to work by allowing people to buy healthcare coverage across state lines enabling competition between healthcare providers, this would lower the costs and raise the benefits they offer. ed [/quote] Capitalism does not work in health care. The health market is accompanied by market failure do to the unique features of the market. Consumers do not have their normal range of freedoms. There was a pretty seminal papers published a few decades ago explaining why free markets do not work in health care which I can like if you are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1341082475' post='2450943'] Hospitals kicking patients to the curb b/c they do not have insurance is a huge crock of poo. This is where I work, [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiQykNe0XzY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiQykNe0XzY[/url] [/quote] You work in a propaganda video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1341149974' post='2451125'] You work in a propaganda video? [/quote] If that makes you happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1341150287' post='2451128'] If that makes you happy. [/quote] You're all I need to make me happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [img]http://getfile5.posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/dave6/34hMnRPZv5uvGQhz5czkcJU3gLRWmzGb812xoZ9MGak0ogmToA99eQL5iJ6L/4unknownname.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1341150594' post='2451131'] [img]http://getfile5.posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/dave6/34hMnRPZv5uvGQhz5czkcJU3gLRWmzGb812xoZ9MGak0ogmToA99eQL5iJ6L/4unknownname.gif[/img] [/quote] Why did Satan possess a kitten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 All cats are his spawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I guess that makes you related to cats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 My point did not go unnoticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1341149800' post='2451124'] Capitalism does not work in health care. The health market is accompanied by market failure do to the unique features of the market. Consumers do not have their normal range of freedoms. There was a pretty seminal papers published a few decades ago explaining why free markets do not work in health care which I can like if you are interested. [/quote] This is a very myopic view of the healthcare market. Capitalism works every time its been tried, do you realize the healthcare providers do not want to have to be forced into competition across state lines as they know that will force them to offer cheaper rates and better services to compete, this is why they lobby against such reforms. If they, they healthcare insurance providers, did not think this is true why would they spend untold millions yearly lobbying against this? As for your " pretty seminal papers " go, who funded these papers? ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 [quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1341167667' post='2451201'] This is a very myopic view of the healthcare market. Capitalism works every time its been tried, do you realize the healthcare providers do not want to have to be forced into competition across state lines as they know that will force them to offer cheaper rates and better services to compete, this is why they lobby against such reforms. If they, they healthcare insurance providers, did not think this is true why would they spend untold millions yearly lobbying against this? As for your " pretty seminal papers " go, who funded these papers? ed [/quote] Who funded Kenneth Arrow's papers? Well, I guess Stanford University. He was one of the greatest economists of the 20th century and basically started the field of health economics. He's not infallible but he makes some vey good points about how healthcare is fundamentally different from other markets. You can find his work pretty easily. Just google his name and healthcare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 This one, maybe. http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/2/PHCBP.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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