Do You Think This Is Possible To Achieve?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1340922304' post='2450142']
If you have that much trouble with even hugging - which is in itself a chaste act - then I wonder if there is a deeper problem with intimacy. I may be completely off base here, but is it at all possible that your convictions are based in a fear or uncomfortableness with even chaste physical intimacy such as hugging? Because if that is the case then that is not going to be solved by refusing such chaste actions, but only serve to make it worse and if you do go on to marry it could cause a problem. But like I said I may be completely off base here.
[/quote]

No disrespect intended but I was thinking the exact same thing.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Spem in alium' timestamp='1340910935' post='2450052']
My heart tells me to commit myself to God whatever my calling. So far, I think I have been able to live modestly and purely. I'd just like to extend those sorts of things to any future relationship, but I'm not entirely sure how. Not kissing seemed like a good way. Marriage is a lifelong connection between two people and a total giving of the persons to each other. I just feel as though I would be giving myself completely to my spouse if I had never kissed him (or any other man) until our wedding.
[/quote]

It's not always easy to explain to a man (who's interested) that you're waiting for marriage - especially in our society when many times sex is expected after a few dates. This isn't so much an issue when you're dating a man who either shares or honors your beliefs, but I honestly can't figure when you would inform him not to hold your hand...it's such a simple and at times automatic gesture of endearment, he might reach for or take your hand before you have the opportunity to discuss this with him. Then what will you do, snatch your hand back in alarm? feel guilty? These are things you have to consider. It might even come across as awkward to present a prospective beau with a near laundry list of "don't do this" and "avoid that." I'm not trying to be harsh, but it's one thing to say it ("I'm saving hand-holding for engagement or marriage") and another to be in the actual situation.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

About hugging, I used to have a rule that I would not instigate hugs with any guys. But since then I've met a guy who is so respectful and so holy, and he hugged me goodbye after our play was over. I was like, you know, maybe there's something to this. For me, a hug is a sign of trust and a family thing, and I don't give my trust to a lot of people and most people aren't my family. But occasionally, there's that person you can put some trust in, and when you do find that person, they are a jewel. And don't get me wrong, hugs probably don't mean the same thing to everyone, but at least to me, that's how I feel.

[Spem in alium]

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1340922304' post='2450142']
If you have that much trouble with even hugging - which is in itself a chaste act - then I wonder if there is a deeper problem with intimacy. I may be completely off base here, but is it at all possible that your convictions are based in a fear or uncomfortableness with even chaste physical intimacy such as hugging? Because if that is the case then that is not going to be solved by refusing such chaste actions, but only serve to make it worse and if you do go on to marry it could cause a problem. But like I said I may be completely off base here.
[/quote]
[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1340927492' post='2450190']
No disrespect intended but I was thinking the exact same thing.
[/quote]

Thanks to you both, to me you were neither off-base nor disrespectful. Hugging is becoming easier for me to do but I do still feel uncomfortable being touched sometimes, particularly on my face (but I know the reason for that). It's a problem, yeah, and kind of sad for me because I am quite affectionate. I do want to be close to people, but when I experience this closeness it's kind of like my mind can't take it sometimes. Forcing myself to initiate contact seems to help on occasion, but the worst is when people spontaneously hug me (particularly from behind). I get very scared.

...I think I'm just messed up. Sometimes I dread being in a relationship, because I worry the guy will not want to be with me when he finds out about all the issues I have. And marriage is a concern for me. I want to discern my vocation, but issues like this get in the way.

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1340927897' post='2450191']
It's not always easy to explain to a man (who's interested) that you're waiting for marriage - especially in our society when many times sex is expected after a few dates. This isn't so much an issue when you're dating a man who either shares or honors your beliefs, but I honestly can't figure when you would inform him not to hold your hand...it's such a simple and at times automatic gesture of endearment, he might reach for or take your hand before you have the opportunity to discuss this with him. Then what will you do, snatch your hand back in alarm? feel guilty? These are things you have to consider. It might even come across as awkward to present a prospective beau with a near laundry list of "don't do this" and "avoid that." I'm not trying to be harsh, but it's one thing to say it ("I'm saving hand-holding for engagement or marriage") and another to be in the actual situation.
[/quote]

I am not sure if I'd extend it to hand-holding. Judging by what you've said, it's probably not a good idea to do so. And luckily for me, hand-holding is one of the few affectionate things I can do with relative ease. I appreciate what you've said, thank you. It's good to hear blunt advice sometimes

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1340928204' post='2450193']
About hugging, I used to have a rule that I would not instigate hugs with any guys. But since then I've met a guy who is so respectful and so holy, and he hugged me goodbye after our play was over. I was like, you know, maybe there's something to this. For me, a hug is a sign of trust and a family thing, and I don't give my trust to a lot of people and most people aren't my family. But occasionally, there's that person you can put some trust in, and when you do find that person, they are a jewel. And don't get me wrong, hugs probably don't mean the same thing to everyone, but at least to me, that's how I feel.
[/quote]

Yes, hugs have come to mean those sorts of things too. Because of my experiences, I do equate them with trust, love and friendship (yet I have such issues with hugging...go figure). I'm also not very trusting and open, so it does mean a lot for me to hug someone. With guys, I don't tend to initiate hugs, it just seems a bit too forward for me. I'm growing closer to one of my guy friends now, and it feels both good and strange to be able to trust him. Thanks for your reply, it really helped

--

Guys, I apologise for sounding like such a downer/prude/messed-up person. Ultimately I want to live realistically. Not kissing before marriage is something of an ideal for me, it just seems like such a pure and beautiful thing to do. Through what people have said I understand it may be a problem. I know that if I am called to marriage God will see to bring me to my future spouse, but even so I do sometimes doubt that I will find someone who will love me in spite of all the issues I have. The guy would have to be a saint, seriously.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Spem in alium

[Amppax]

[quote]
Guys, I apologise for sounding like such a downer/prude/messed-up person. Ultimately I want to live realistically. Not kissing before marriage is something of an ideal for me, it just seems like such a pure and beautiful thing to do. Through what people have said I understand it may be a problem. I know that if I am called to marriage God will see to bring me to my future spouse, but even so I do sometimes doubt that I will find someone who will love me in spite of all the issues I have. The guy would have to be a saint, seriously.
[/quote]

No need to apologize. You've just presented a well reasoned case for why you want to pursue relationships in a certain way, in addition to having what seem to be pretty decent personal reasons for doing so. You've also expressed a willingness to be open to the ideas of others here. Quite honestly, I think a lot of guys would really respect that. I know I do.

And speaking towards the issues thing, I can arseure you, if you are as kind and thoughtful in real life as you are here on phatmarse, I think a lot of guys wouldn't be too bothered. Speaking from personal experience, my girlfriend tends to say the same thing, and I just laugh. Part of being in a relationship is being able to come to terms with the other persons struggles/flaws/past etc.

[Spem in alium]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1340940860' post='2450261']
No need to apologize. You've just presented a well reasoned case for why you want to pursue relationships in a certain way, in addition to having what seem to be pretty decent personal reasons for doing so. You've also expressed a willingness to be open to the ideas of others here. Quite honestly, I think a lot of guys would really respect that. I know I do.

And speaking towards the issues thing, I can arseure you, if you are as kind and thoughtful in real life as you are here on phatmarse, I think a lot of guys wouldn't be too bothered. Speaking from personal experience, my girlfriend tends to say the same thing, and I just laugh. Part of being in a relationship is being able to come to terms with the other persons struggles/flaws/past etc.
[/quote]

Thank you so much, Amppax. What you've said really means a lot to me.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Spem in alium' timestamp='1340938907' post='2450251']
...I think I'm just messed up. Sometimes I dread being in a relationship, because I worry the guy will not want to be with me when he finds out about all the issues I have. And marriage is a concern for me. I want to discern my vocation, but issues like this get in the way.
[/quote]

You're not messed up. Chances are you just need time to learn more about yourself and God's will for your life. It's amazing how God can work with a person.

[inunionwithrome]

It most certainly can be done. I know of a couple who six months before they were married, lived in the same house together. They slept in seperate rooms, did not have intimacy, and then were married. After marriage, they were blessed shortly to have a child. It was a situation in which the person lived in an apartment dwelling that was too dangerous and the "friend" or "aquaitance" took her in. So, yes, it is completely possible.

[Spem in alium]

[quote name='HisChildForever' timestamp='1340978726' post='2450375']
You're not messed up. Chances are you just need time to learn more about yourself and God's will for your life. It's amazing how God can work with a person.
[/quote]

Thank you. I definitely do need to learn more about myself, and I have not much of an idea as to where God is calling me. Last night in Adoration I prayed for clarity. I know God is working with me and wanting to draw me closer, but I feel as though some issues (like the ones I've described) can get in the way of being with Him and gaining a better knowledge of where I'm meant to be.

[quote name='inunionwithrome' timestamp='1340992960' post='2450439']
It most certainly can be done. I know of a couple who six months before they were married, lived in the same house together. They slept in seperate rooms, did not have intimacy, and then were married. After marriage, they were blessed shortly to have a child. It was a situation in which the person lived in an apartment dwelling that was too dangerous and the "friend" or "aquaitance" took her in. So, yes, it is completely possible.
[/quote]

Thanks for that. It's very admirable that they were able to refrain from intimacy while living together.

[EmilyAnn]

[quote name='Spem in alium' timestamp='1340938907' post='2450251']
Thanks to you both, to me you were neither off-base nor disrespectful. Hugging is becoming easier for me to do but I do still feel uncomfortable being touched sometimes, particularly on my face (but I know the reason for that). It's a problem, yeah, and kind of sad for me because I am quite affectionate. I do want to be close to people, but when I experience this closeness it's kind of like my mind can't take it sometimes. Forcing myself to initiate contact seems to help on occasion, but the worst is when people spontaneously hug me (particularly from behind). I get very scared.

...I think I'm just messed up. Sometimes I dread being in a relationship, because I worry the guy will not want to be with me when he finds out about all the issues I have. And marriage is a concern for me. I want to discern my vocation, but issues like this get in the way.
[/quote]

Maybe this is something you need to discuss with someone. It speaks to a greater fear of intimacy, that whatever your vocation is could become a problem in later life. Just having someone to talk to and help you sort through your thoughts and feelings could help you a lot.

[quote name='Spem in alium' timestamp='1340938907' post='2450251']
Guys, I apologise for sounding like such a downer/prude/messed-up person. Ultimately I want to live realistically. Not kissing before marriage is something of an ideal for me, it just seems like such a pure and beautiful thing to do. Through what people have said I understand it may be a problem. I know that if I am called to marriage God will see to bring me to my future spouse, but even so I do sometimes doubt that I will find someone who will love me in spite of all the issues I have. The guy would have to be a saint, seriously.
[/quote]

We all have our weaknesses and our faults. It is part of being human and part of being in a relationship is learning to deal with those faults in the other person.

Thinking of things like not kissing until marriage as pure and beautiful, while not wrong thinking in itself, with the issues you've already recognised with touching it can lead to one thinking of such actions as impure and unchaste in all circumstances and can cause issues then in marriage because one cannot reconcile their way of thinking with the physical intimacy of marriage. I'm not dismissing your conviction, I'm just saying think carefully about why and how it might affect you later.

[Spem in alium]

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1341009277' post='2450576']
Maybe this is something you need to discuss with someone. It speaks to a greater fear of intimacy, that whatever your vocation is could become a problem in later life. Just having someone to talk to and help you sort through your thoughts and feelings could help you a lot.

We all have our weaknesses and our faults. It is part of being human and part of being in a relationship is learning to deal with those faults in the other person.

Thinking of things like not kissing until marriage as pure and beautiful, while not wrong thinking in itself, with the issues you've already recognised with touching it can lead to one thinking of such actions as impure and unchaste in all circumstances and can cause issues then in marriage because one cannot reconcile their way of thinking with the physical intimacy of marriage. I'm not dismissing your conviction, I'm just saying think carefully about why and how it might affect you later.
[/quote]

Speaking to someone would help, but I'm not sure who. I already see a psychiatrist due to some of the health issues I have, but I already feel so pathetic about doing that and know mentioning this to him would bring up a whole new issue. My family doesn't know the depth of discomfort I feel, but most of them tend to be very mindful of how I feel and don't touch me so much, especially on the face. I can generally tolerate deep hugs from them and from a few friends.

I can really see where you're coming from. I think I'd just not admitted things to myself before. I do value purity and chastity, and they play a big part in what I do. When I think about kissing and intimacy (specifically hugging and touching), I don't see them as being instantly impure. They can be very beautiful, very chaste and very pure acts. I just feel like there's something stopping me from appreciating and being able to do them properly.

I know that if I am called to marriage, there will be a lot for me to do. Much of what I've faced I've managed to beat by being determined. I think recognising the problem is the first step, and would one day love to be able to be touched on the face, hugged or held by a taller person and not feel afraid or uncomfortable. I [i]want[/i] to be intimate with people...it's like I just can't. Does that even make sense? It will take effort, but I am confident I can do it through being aware of and testing my limits.

Thank you for being so considerate. This is the first time I've ever really acknowledged this issue and the first time I've spoken about it. In my heart, I know that I am motivated by worthwhile things. This problem may be the cause for some of my thinking, but I know it's not the key reason and nor can I let it be. I appreciate your help and the help of everyone here so much. Thank you.

[EmilyAnn]

[quote name='Spem in alium' timestamp='1341011707' post='2450599']
Speaking to someone would help, but I'm not sure who. I already see a psychiatrist due to some of the health issues I have, but I already feel so pathetic about doing that and know mentioning this to him would bring up a whole new issue. My family doesn't know the depth of discomfort I feel, but most of them tend to be very mindful of how I feel and don't touch me so much, especially on the face. I can generally tolerate deep hugs from them and from a few friends.
[/quote]

Needing help doesn't make you pathetic. It makes you human, and admitting that you need help takes more courage than trying to struggle on your own. I'm not sure a psychiatrist would be the right choice, but a therapist or a counsellor would be the right sort of person to talk to.

[quote name='Spem in alium' timestamp='1341011707' post='2450599']I can really see where you're coming from. I think I'd just not admitted things to myself before. I do value purity and chastity, and they play a big part in what I do. When I think about kissing and intimacy (specifically hugging and touching), I don't see them as being instantly impure. They can be very beautiful, very chaste and very pure acts. I just feel like there's something stopping me from appreciating and being able to do them properly.[/quote]

Sometimes admitting things to ourselves is the hardest part.

[quote name='Spem in alium' timestamp='1341011707' post='2450599']I know that if I am called to marriage, there will be a lot for me to do. Much of what I've faced I've managed to beat by being determined. I think recognising the problem is the first step, and would one day love to be able to be touched on the face, hugged or held by a taller person and not feel afraid or uncomfortable. I [i]want[/i] to be intimate with people...it's like I just can't. Does that even make sense? It will take effort, but I am confident I can do it through being aware of and testing my limits.[/quote]

It makes sense, don't worry. I've had a lot of issues with physical intimacy in the past. I don't generally like being touched, it's just not in my nature. I'm okay with people hugging me, but I'll only initiate a hug if it's a very close friend. And I saw a counsellor for a while for various issues and it helped me a lot - even though it wasn't about my issues with physical intimacy specifically it worked though a lot of things that I didn't even realise were a part of it.

[Spem in alium]

[quote name='EmilyAnn' timestamp='1341012498' post='2450606']
Needing help doesn't make you pathetic. It makes you human, and admitting that you need help takes more courage than trying to struggle on your own. I'm not sure a psychiatrist would be the right choice, but a therapist or a counsellor would be the right sort of person to talk to.

Sometimes admitting things to ourselves is the hardest part.

It makes sense, don't worry. I've had a lot of issues with physical intimacy in the past. I don't generally like being touched, it's just not in my nature. I'm okay with people hugging me, but I'll only initiate a hug if it's a very close friend. And I saw a counsellor for a while for various issues and it helped me a lot - even though it wasn't about my issues with physical intimacy specifically it worked though a lot of things that I didn't even realise were a part of it.
[/quote]

I can see your point. I have some suspicions as to why I'm this way, and really, the last thing I want is to have someone diagnose me with more problems. I will try and arrange to talk to someone. This morning, I opened up to my sister about the problem I get with people touching me. It was hard, but she's pretty much my best friend and was so considerate. It really helped to confide in someone close, I feel a bit stronger now.

I only initiate hugs if it's with someone close to me. They're special things for me, so when I initiate them it does mean a lot. Though even hugging my family does cause problems sometimes - my youngest sister is quite tall, and although I like hugging her and even though she's so gentle, I do sometimes feel unsafe when close to her. It's made kind of worse by the fact that she hugs me randomly. I don't know if I should tell people about this issue or just keep it to myself. I don't want to offend anyone, and if I told my parents they'd probably be quite shocked and disbelieving.